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Post by redsycorax on Feb 24, 2024 2:47:40 GMT
Yep, I'd go for that. Although if it judges on intent, does that mean the book is sentient/sapient in itself?
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Post by dans on Feb 24, 2024 11:44:10 GMT
It must have the ability to understand questions and format answers. This must be part of the magic...
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Post by redsycorax on Feb 24, 2024 22:54:15 GMT
So, if it were sentient, would that be because it was created by a benevolent deity, or because the book is an oracle that channels a beneficent being? Some Renaissance wizards, such as the Elizabethan John Dee, sought the counsel of angels, for instance? If so, that could explain the virtue settings - and if the deity is one that permits free will, the user wouldn't always have to use it? Well, that's one possible explanation, anyhow.
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Post by dans on Feb 25, 2024 17:22:15 GMT
These are too deep for me! I'm going to show Doc Yale making limited use of the Book of Answers and whatever limits it exhibits can be assumed by any other writer to be imposed by Doc's own human limits. Personally I think the Book's origin is about as unknowable as anything in existence - it was formed during an earlier universal expansion/contraction cycle and has survived at least one Big Crunch and Big Bang and maybe more...
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Post by dans on Mar 1, 2024 18:11:52 GMT
In the story about the deaths of the original Sentinels of Magic (Sacrifices Must be Made) Doc Yale finds a spell in the Book of Answers for the deadly situation in which the Sentinels find themselves - and it apparently wasn't quite good enough, because he and the other Sentinels did not survive.
I'm wondering... suppose he asks a question and the Book reveals a magic spell as the answer, and that spell was originally chanted in the language used by Dr. Mist in Kor, or in ancient Atlantis... how will the Book of Answers reveal that spell to the person who asked the question? Would the spell be translated into English or spelled out phonetically? And if there were gestures required, how would the book transmit that information?
Would a spell that was directly translated into English even work? Other cultures have words that do not translate directly into English, and a magic-based culture probably has a lot more of these compared to the essentially science-based culture of Earth 1 America...)
Perhaps Doc Yale's final spell was not fully effective because of the difficulties in framing the answer perfectly so the questioner understands it fully...
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Post by johnreiter902 on Mar 2, 2024 2:12:10 GMT
My own personal head-cannon is that the exact words of the spell are not as important as the meaning imparted to them by the person reading them.
So, for example, a spell will work in any language, but usually only if the person reading it knows who they are calling on and what they want to happen. If you just pick up a spell book and randomly read something without understanding it, the most that will happen is that the cosmic forces "listening" for that spell will "glance" in your direction and focus on you for a minute. Only malevolent forces who want to take advantage of the innocent would actually respond to a spell in such a circumstance.
In the case of Doc Yale, I would say that the book gave him a spell that could have saved him, but it was beyond his ability to understand. He was in the position of "I need a book to explain this book." so to speak. So when he tried to cast the spell, it fizzled. It's sort of like giving me the complete instructions on how to program a computer. I start off which 0 knowledge of how to program a computer, so even with the instructions, I am likely to make huge mistakes and ultimately fail since I have no training or experiences. Just having the right answer every time is not the same as knowledge of the subject.
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Post by DocQuantum on Mar 2, 2024 2:49:35 GMT
Here's what really happened, something that I didn't get until I did a closer reading of all of CSyphrett's Books of Magic stories:
1. Major Henry Valdemir (the "Voldemort" of our story) made a deal with a bigwig (probably Satan) from Hell to invade the Earth. The island emerged into five parallel universes at once as a bridge from Hell to these five Earths. An invasion from Hell began in the form of Grim Island (specifically, it was a piece of the Darkworld used as a bridge between Hell and Earth).
2. Valdemir sent the Sentinels to the island so that they would be killed by the forces of Hell. Their sacrifices at the hands of the evil ones was meant to seal in blood the bigwig's power on Earth. Grim Island would have thus been an impregnable beachhead for an invasion from Hell. Valdemir stood to benefit greatly through his alliance with the bigwig. The plan nearly succeeded, too, because Black Star, the Stainless Steel Cat, and Hal King were killed in this way.
3. Doc Yale and Johnny Constantine realized what was really happening, Yale because of his Book of Answers and Constantine (who happens to be John Constantine's grandfather, by the way) because of his occult knowledge. They used certain spells and willingly sacrificed their own lives (rather than being killed by the demons) in order to purchase Grim Island with their own blood. (Afterwards, Mac Maine and Number 99 also willingly sacrificed themselves to stop the threat, but this would have had no effect if it were not for Yale and Constantine's spell.)
4. Gareth Gallowglass, as the last living member of the Sentinels of Magic, now owns the island, since the Sentinels bought it with their blood. This is something that is recognized in the spirit world as a valid contract. By doing so, Valdemir's plan with the bigwig from Hell was thwarted, and ever since then Gallowglass (with his reality-changing psionic powers), known as the Master of the Impossible, has repeatedly protected all five Earths from further much weaker invasion attempts from Hell. He created Doom's Doorway in order to seal off Hell from Earth as well, but this was not a perfect solution, because the barrier is weakened each year at the same time (the end of April), possibly because the forces of Hell did manage to kill three of the Sentinels before Yale and Constantine performed the spells and sacrificed themselves willingly to buy the island with their blood.
5. The reason the Grimoire Academy was founded was not just to educate students in self-reliance in an extraordinary world full of heroes, villains, magic, sci-fi reality, etc, but to have a group of magicians on hand to bolster the island's defenses. The founding fathers of the school -- Shazam, Doctor Mist, Doctor Occult, Yarko the Great, and Margo the Magician -- erected wards and spells around the island that now do most of the heavy work of preventing another demonic incursion.
So, to my thinking, Doc Yale knew exactly what he was doing, and he and Constantine intentionally sacrificed themselves in order to buy Grim Island with their blood. It was not a mistake or anything like that. He knew he was going to die and he knew he needed to die in a specific way to save the world, and he did not seek to save his life.
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Post by dans on Mar 2, 2024 2:59:33 GMT
OK, so the spell the Book produced was not able to complete the stopping of the intrusion without a blood sacrifice, although the story doesn't exactly make that clear.
Based on these two responses, I think I'll just allow Doc to easily cast simple spells that the Book provides for him, which will work if he has a clear understanding of the purpose behind them and which don't require the assistance of some being of greater power. The Book will give him some direction and if he understands the directions and follows them adequately, he will get good results. But I think he will learn that he really can't compete on the power or complexity level with trained homo magi mages, though he will get better with practice...
I've learned enough through this discussion to feel comfortable completing Doc's origin. He will have some limits while using the Book, but I want to reiterate that these limits only apply to stories I write about Doc and the Book of Answers. They certainly don't apply to Gareth Gallowglass, who was already vastly powerful before the Book came into his possession. And we know nothing of the history of the Book before Hubert the Hermit's death...
Now I have to figure out how to fit Tatum Truett, Rocky Young, and Janek Knight into the story!!
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Post by dans on Mar 8, 2024 13:27:57 GMT
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Post by dans on Mar 9, 2024 17:32:46 GMT
I don't like the pseudo-scientific/alien origins at all, personally, for such an object that is obviously magical in nature. I'd rather it come from a mystical source, such as an actual book created eons ago by gods or angels during the Age of Legends... or possibly its origin cannot ever be known and can only be theorized or just guessed at. I may have said this already, but since Doc Yale was part of the 'Sentinels of Magic' I agree that this tends to suggest that the Boof of Answers is magical. Of course, Mac Maine used a science powered device, so the name is not totally definitive. Anyway, as Arthur C. Clarke once famously said, 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic'. I have finished my Doc Yale story; it's available on the Earth 1 site. Doc is now pretty much a blank slate, a man determined to 'do the right things' who has a magical Book of Answers to help him. I'm looking forward to reading his monthly series of adventures prior to joining the Sentinels - it might make a good backup feature in Adventure Comics, or it might become popular enough to support his own title... only time (and great stories) will tell! Although we already have a good idea what will be in issues #18 and #24!!!)
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