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Post by reichsmark on Aug 28, 2019 4:29:27 GMT
Recently doing research on Golden Age heroes I discovered that Mr. Scarlet actually operated out of Gotham City for roughly the first year or so of his run. Apparently the name was used by Fawcett even before Batman used it over at DC. So, does Earth S have a Gotham City too or was this a Mr. Scarlet of Earth 2? If it was the same Scarlet how did he end up on Earth S? Or did he just decide to change his name because he thought it was too corny? Maybe to something like the Gray Ghost. In any case it might make for an interesting story idea.
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Post by DocQuantum on Aug 31, 2019 7:26:10 GMT
This is just screaming for a 1940s-era cross-Earth team-up of Batman & Robin with Mr. Scarlet & Pinky.
Of course, Gotham is a nickname for New York City, so the name could be handwaved away as a nickname like the Big Apple or Fun City, but it's not as fun an idea.
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Post by jonclark on Aug 31, 2019 19:36:05 GMT
We've seen counterparts to people on the various Earths and obviously major real world cities like New York & Washington DC, so I don't see why comic book cities wouldn't have them. It would be interesting to have Batman or Mr. Scarlet reacting to similarities and differences between the two cities.
Maybe the Butlers and the Waynes are sort of counterparts. Bruce and Brian may have shared ancestors nut with someone having marries a Butler instead of a Wayne a few generations back on Earth-S
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Post by johnreiter902 on Aug 31, 2019 21:31:24 GMT
We've seen counterparts to people on the various Earths and obviously major real world cities like New York & Washington DC, so I don't see why comic book cities wouldn't have them. It would be interesting to have Batman or Mr. Scarlet reacting to similarities and differences between the two cities. Maybe the Butlers and the Waynes are sort of counterparts. Bruce and Brian may have shared ancestors nut with someone having marries a Butler instead of a Wayne a few generations back on Earth-S That's not a bad idea |
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Post by dans on Aug 31, 2019 23:53:51 GMT
So maybe when Brian Butler lost his job as the DA of Gotham City, he moved to New York City? And that might be why he never got any detective jobs, because he was new to the city and nobody knew him?
I wonder if the Monitor might have decided to test Batman and Mr. Scarlett by switching them from one universe to the other? Or maybe one of their foes figured out how to switch universes, and put together a team of villains from both universes and the heroes have to team up to beat them...
Another interesting thought is having the sidekicks switched.
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Post by jonclark on Sept 1, 2019 5:00:00 GMT
So maybe when Brian Butler lost his job as the DA of Gotham City, he moved to New York City? And that might be why he never got any detective jobs, because he was new to the city and nobody knew him?
I wonder if the Monitor might have decided to test Batman and Mr. Scarlett by switching them from one universe to the other? Or maybe one of their foes figured out how to switch universes, and put together a team of villains from both universes and the heroes have to team up to beat them...
Another interesting thought is having the sidekicks switched.
Maybe it was Bat-mite either trying to show how batman was better than Mr. Scarlet. Or after the JSA disbanded Bat-mite thought Bruce could use a new superhero friend to replace them. It might fit into a window just before the suspendium trap on Earth-S and the JSA disbanding on Earth-2 |
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Post by Reichsmark on Sept 1, 2019 20:58:19 GMT
Just realized that Batman's early adventures took place in New York City. New York then evolved into Gotham probably close to the time Scarlet started using New York in his books. More and more intriguing.
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Post by reichsmark on Aug 8, 2023 18:06:00 GMT
You gotta love Roy Thomas. Nobody else but he would bother with continuity cleanup regarding Gotham City and Mr. Scarlet. In All-Star Squadron 52 when several heroes crossed over to Earth S Green Lantern mentioned being from Gotham City. To which Capt.Marvel replied "never heard of it." Which I'm sure really cleared up the fact that Earth S never had a Gotham City for those two fans who probably still remembered it besides Roy.
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Post by jonclark on Aug 9, 2023 2:21:52 GMT
You gotta love Roy Thomas. Nobody else but he would bother with continuity cleanup regarding Gotham City and Mr. Scarlet. In All-Star Squadron 52 when several heroes crossed over to Earth S Green Lantern mentioned being from Gotham City. To which Capt.Marvel replied "never heard of it." Which I'm sure really cleared up the fact that Earth S never had a Gotham City for those two fans who probably still remembered it besides Roy. That doesn't prove anything really, except that Captain Marvel never heard of that city. Could easily be that Gotham on Earth S was outshown by New York and a few other cities. Cap also may not have been familiar with Dallas, Atlanta, Denver ... whether or not they existed on Earth S. |
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Post by DocQuantum on Aug 9, 2023 3:05:04 GMT
It kind of does indicate at least that there's no Gotham City on Earth-S, since Captain Marvel has the Wisdom of Solomon, which also gives him knowledge.
Plus, there was a long-running series in Captain Marvel Adventures in the early 1940s in which Billy Batson was visiting cities all over the U.S. and had adventures in each of them. I'm not sure if they ever got to every single state, but the point is you could never claim that Captain Marvel was unfamiliar with America's cities.
Not proof, but very strong evidence.
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Post by dans on Aug 9, 2023 9:37:36 GMT
Don't have any way to be sure what Roy was thinking, but other than to confirm that there is no Gotham City on Earth-S, why bother with the quoted exchange between Captain Marvel and Green Lantern? Maybe the reason was to point out to readers a major difference between Earth 2 and Earth S rather than to address a bit of continuity, but it does seem to confirm that there is no Gotham City on the Earth S that Roy was writing about. Or at least, no Gotham City that was large enough to come to the attention of either Cap or boy radio broadcaster Billy.
It could also be that Earth S Gotham City is a very small city that only people who live nearby know. Have you ever heard of Egg Harbor City, NJ? Me too neither until about 2 minutes ago.
So I would say that if someone wanted to put a Gotham City on Earth S, it would need to be a small city.
Another option is that the name of Gotham City was erased from E2 history by a small side effect of the Crisis?
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Post by reichsmark on Aug 9, 2023 10:53:57 GMT
Roy very seldom used throwaway lines for no reason. Maybe it was just to point out differences between the worlds, but considering how hyper focused he was on golden age minutae, I'd be more surprised if it didn't reference something. Otherwise, it seems so unneccessary.
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Post by dans on Aug 9, 2023 14:45:24 GMT
Otherwise, it seems so unneccessary. Agreed. Why put it in unless it means _something_? |
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Post by dans on Aug 9, 2023 16:04:21 GMT
Another interesting thought is having the sidekicks switched.
So Brian Butler was always scrounging for detective work (or attorney, or whatever he did) and Pinky was always complaining about being hungry all the time. He might have liked working for Bruce Wayne better, as he would at least get fed regularly! |
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Post by DocQuantum on Aug 9, 2023 19:21:27 GMT
Another interesting thought is having the sidekicks switched.
So Brian Butler was always scrounging for detective work (or attorney, or whatever he did) and Pinky was always complaining about being hungry all the time. He might have liked working for Bruce Wayne better, as he would at least get fed regularly! The funny thing is that, prior to the Suspendium incident he was notoriously poor, but after, he turned out to be a rich man like Bruce Wayne! I think that was explained by some good investments made in the 1940s, but I'm not exactly sure. |
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