|
|
Post by johnreiter902 on Aug 21, 2019 14:32:34 GMT
One thing that is usually glazed over, when talking about different multiverse worlds, is the way that many of them experience the "heroic age" on a different generational cycle from other Earths. On Earth-2, the age of heroes occurs during the G.I. Generation, who were young adults inWW2. On Earth-1, the age of heroes occurred 2 generations later, in 1970, with the heroes mostly being born in the Baby Boomer generation. In between is Earth-154, where the heroes are members of the Silent Generation and began their careers in the early 1950s. For the sake of plot, writers often overlook these age differences, and combine time travel with dimension travel so that the heroes can all meet each other when they are close to their prime. For example, people who visit Earth-18, the home of the Justice Riders, never appear in the present day, always in the 1870s.
Regardless of their other divergences, universes tend to fall into groups, aligned with a particular generational cycle. For example, the imaginary stories written in the 1960s tend to assume that the heroes are members of the Silent Generation, regardless of what the actual divergence of the story was (Batman being Superman's brother, Lex Luthor reforming, and so forth). On the other hand, Elseworlds from the 1990s all tend to assume that the heroes are members of Generation X.
This makes me imagine the multiverse as a multilayered tower, extending from the past to the future. Each "layer" representing a group of worlds where the age of heroes is chronologically aligned. It would be interesting to see this represented in a story.
Related to this, I had an idea for an Infinite Worlds story. One side effect of the Generational multiverse, is that there is a version of the DC universe (usually one with a Superman) for every generation going back to the Civil War. It would be a really cool story if all these Supermen were abducted and met each other. I was strongly inspired by reading about Strauss–Howe generational theory. It won't go into detail, but it really explains why the Earth-2 and Earth-0 Supermen hated each other so much in Adventures of Superman #649.
So, anyway, these are the Supermen I would use for this, going from most modern to least modern.
Alex Ross' proposed Earth-10: Superiorman of the Justice Union of Earth was at the peek of his career in 2050, so he would be a member of the Homeland Generation, and would be just barely old enough to start adventuring in the present day. The next Artist generation (which makes sense, considering that he lives in a Tommy Tomorrow style sci-fi future)
Prime Earth: The current Superman, a member of the Millennial Generation, which is the first Civic Generation since World War II and supposed to lead in the next crisis.
Earth-0: Superman of Generation X, just reaching to conclusion of his main career, which was from around 1987 to 2011. A member of a nomad generation.
Earth-1: the Superman of the Baby Boomers, which is the last Prophet Generation. His main adult career is from 1970 to 1990.
Earth-154: the Super-Sons Superman, who is also the Superman of the "proto-silver age." He began his career in the early-to-mid 1950s and operated until the late 1960s. This earth is also one of many worlds where events that did not take place on either Earth 1 or 2 are set. This was the last Artist generation, the generation of the space age.
Earth-2: The last Civic generation Superman is the Superman of the Golden age, who operated from the late 1930s to the late 1950s. the social changing crisis of his time was, of course, World War 2.
Elseworld's Finest: This Elseworld features a Superman who is a member of the Lost Generation, the last generation before Earth-2. It was a Nomad Generation. This Superman operated during the 1920s and 30s, though he operated secretly for the first half of his career. This is a pulp era Superman, and his world probably aligns with Earth-20 and other similar elseworlds chronologically. Interestingly, he is the only Superman on this list who is known to have married somebody other than Lois Lane (Talia al-Ghul).
(missionary generation):This is the only Generation I can find no Superman for. There are a couple of universes aligned with this Generation, such as Batman: the Golden Streets of Gotham, and Batman/Houdini: the Devil's Workshop, but we have only seen their Batmen. It's a shame, since this Superman and his fellow heroes would have reached the peak of their career during World War 1. This was the Prophet generation before the Baby Boomers.
Earth-1876:This is the world of the Superman from JLA:Age of Wonder. He is a member of the Progressive Generation, and his universe is aligned with Gotham by Gaslight and other late 19th century worlds. He was a member of the Artist Generation that came before space age, the age of inventors.
Earth-18: the Superman who fought through the last crisis era before World War 2 (the Civil War) was the Superman from A Nation Divided. He would be a member of the Gilded Generation, and the heroes who were members of that generation would have spent the second half of their careers in the 1870s. Most of the wild west universes are aligned with this one. I am choosing to assume that the Superman from A Nation Divided is the same as the Clark Kent we see in the Justice Riders elseworld. I think it was implied that there is a Superman on the Justice Riders world.
|
|
|
|
Post by DocQuantum on Aug 21, 2019 20:24:06 GMT
Bravo! This is really interesting. I’ve read a bit about generational theories before, and it makes for an interesting lens on the multiverse, especially with Superman as a natural focal point. (Though Batman might work just as well or better.)
This is a bit of a side note, but I’ve been undergoing an experiment by reading all Earth-1 stories taking place in roughly chronological order beginning from the early 20th century on. So it begins with the last Jonah Hex story and the original Swamp Thing, continues with Enemy Ace and Balloon Buster during the Great War (World War I), skips the 20s for the most part except for one-off stories, then picks up with the Shadow, Doc Savage, the Avenger, and Nathaniel Dusk in the 30s, followed by a World War II era that explodes with stories and new characters based more (Sgt Rock) or less (Viking Commando) in reality.
Yet there’s often an undercurrent of the fantastical throughout, which manifests with such things as Dinosaur Island in WW2, alien invasions and monsters in the late 50s and early 60s, and the supernatural in the 60s and 70s.
Most of the heroes are non powered adventurers who tackle these incredibly difficult problems using their wits, and successfully protect the world until the superhero age arrives in the 1970s and takes over (in our collapsed timeline at least).
But the thing that strikes me the most is that, despite the fantastical in history, Earth-1 seems mostly based in realism until the late 1950s or so, when Superboy appears. Then Earth seems inundated by aliens and monsters that occupy most of the stories. What happened? Did someone or something open up some forbidden doorway that just unleashed this ‘Pandora’s Box’ on humanity? IS it tied in with the Heroic Ages on these Earths?
|
|
|
|
Post by DocQuantum on Aug 21, 2019 20:31:49 GMT
Also, why are historical figures immune to the generational effects of the Multiverse? I haven’t seen any stories that attempt to depict, say, Abraham Lincoln as a contemporary of the Space Age, except through time travel.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnreiter902 on Aug 22, 2019 2:56:48 GMT
Also, why are historical figures immune to the generational effects of the Multiverse? I haven’t seen any stories that attempt to depict, say, Abraham Lincoln as a contemporary of the Space Age, except through time travel. Every once in a while you see an alternate history that considers something like that, although they are not common at all, which is sad. I think I read one once where Alexander the Great was a general in World War 2, and one where George Washington led the Confederate Army in the Civil War.
Sometimes it happens in comics, though it is usually put off as an anachronism. For example, some of the early Zorro comics had Benito Juarez as president of Mexico, a generation early.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonclark on Aug 22, 2019 7:21:46 GMT
Also, why are historical figures immune to the generational effects of the Multiverse? I haven’t seen any stories that attempt to depict, say, Abraham Lincoln as a contemporary of the Space Age, except through time travel. Every once in a while you see an alternate history that considers something like that, although they are not common at all, which is sad. I think I read one once where Alexander the Great was a general in World War 2, and one where George Washington led the Confederate Army in the Civil War.
Sometimes it happens in comics, though it is usually put off as an anachronism. For example, some of the early Zorro comics had Benito Juarez as president of Mexico, a generation early.
I think most historical figures are seen as sort of products of their time. The stuff that makes Lincoln, "Lincoln" is the Civil War. If he had run for president in 1840 or 1880 (even if he was otherwise the same guy age and experience wise) he might have been a footnote rather than one of our greatest Presidents. Without the backdrop of the Civil War, his attributes might not have made as much of an impact. And conversely if the Civil War had happened a little earlier or later we might remember some other President with the same fondness. Batman and Superman seem to have more adaptability simply because we have seen them both change and remain the same in so many ways over an 80 year period. No one thinks of George Reeves, Christopher Reeve, and Henry Cavill as the same Superman. And Adam West and Christian Bale are almost polar opposites in their portrayal of Batman. So as fans we can picture a lot of the tropes that define these two being used in different settings. But for most historic figures their tropes are tied to when they were alive. |
|
|
|
Post by jonclark on Aug 22, 2019 7:43:22 GMT
Bravo! This is really interesting. I’ve read a bit about generational theories before, and it makes for an interesting lens on the multiverse, especially with Superman as a natural focal point. (Though Batman might work just as well or better.) This is a bit of a side note, but I’ve been undergoing an experiment by reading all Earth-1 stories taking place in roughly chronological order beginning from the early 20th century on. So it begins with the last Jonah Hex story and the original Swamp Thing, continues with Enemy Ace and Balloon Buster during the Great War (World War I), skips the 20s for the most part except for one-off stories, then picks up with the Shadow, Doc Savage, the Avenger, and Nathaniel Dusk in the 30s, followed by a World War II era that explodes with stories and new characters based more (Sgt Rock) or less (Viking Commando) in reality. Yet there’s often an undercurrent of the fantastical throughout, which manifests with such things as Dinosaur Island in WW2, alien invasions and monsters in the late 50s and early 60s, and the supernatural in the 60s and 70s. Most of the heroes are non powered adventurers who tackle these incredibly difficult problems using their wits, and successfully protect the world until the superhero age arrives in the 1970s and takes over (in our collapsed timeline at least). But the thing that strikes me the most is that, despite the fantastical in history, Earth-1 seems mostly based in realism until the late 1950s or so, when Superboy appears. Then Earth seems inundated by aliens and monsters that occupy most of the stories. What happened? Did someone or something open up some forbidden doorway that just unleashed this ‘Pandora’s Box’ on humanity? IS it tied in with the Heroic Ages on these Earths? Look at the history of a lot of these worlds including Earth-Prime. Earth 2 seemed to be a lot like our world up until World War II. Sure Superman was active in 1938, but he really only seemed to make a minor impact on history. If Kal-L had died in 1939 (and no heroes arose after him) would it really be noticeably different from Earth 1 or earth Prime in 1950? And even with some of the grafted on other comic universe stuff would anyone from Earth 1 really notice they had switched over to Earth 4 prior to Captain Atom? The only world that might have a different feel in any age might be Earth-S that somehow had a more innocent and cartoony feel in some ways. Even if some of the history was the same, it just seemed like you'd be less likely to see an orphan child/teen radio host or an anthropromorphic tiger on most other worlds. And wasn't the whole point of Ultraa that he had to leave Earth-Prime because his presence there was starting to make other heroes and villains more likely. Sort of like the argument in Miracleman that once you have one improbable event (a superhero) it makes the next improbable event more plausible until what was once unbelievable is commonplace. Superman in most universes we have seen (until Crisis) seems to always appear as a harbinger of superhumans. And if not him someone who is a sort of counterpart like Captain Atom or Captain Marvel. It was only Post-Crisis that we saw any hint of Kal-El not being the first major hero of his era (yeah he started the second wave with Barry Allen, but the JSA weren't reduced from memory to myth like older heroes on Earth-One) |
|
|
|
Post by redsycorax on Aug 23, 2019 23:15:07 GMT
Have to say I agree with jonclark here. I'm into serious alternate histories mostly, as you can tell if you've read any of my fanfic. As for historical figures, I agree that they're very much embedded in a particular social, economic and political context. On one alternate pre-Crisis Earth, Superman was injured and cloned twice, resulting in Superman III in that world's present day. Its Washington freed the slaves and its Lincoln were the ones who won independence from the United Kingdom. They would neccessarily be very different individuals from Washington and Lincoln in OTL. Its metahumans would have been born and grown to maturity in specific ways, influenced by their surrounding social attitudes, political opinions and contemporary philosophies. Any Earth-X Superman would diverge markedly from Earth-One's Kal-El. That's one thing that really impresses me about Superman: Red Son (Earth-30), incidentally- the care with which the author built its Soviet Superman.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnreiter902 on Sept 15, 2019 11:43:06 GMT
Bravo! This is really interesting. I’ve read a bit about generational theories before, and it makes for an interesting lens on the multiverse, especially with Superman as a natural focal point. (Though Batman might work just as well or better.)
You make an excellent point. I wanted to focus on Superman, because he is usually seen as the greatest DC hero. However, focusing on Batman makes this project even easier, and I can extend it to one generation before the Civil War. Here is what that would look like.
Homeland Generation: Bat-Knight (Alex Ross' Earth-10)
Millennial Generation: Batman (Prime Earth) Generation X: Batman (Earth-0)
Baby Boomers: Batman (Earth-1) Silent Generation: Batman (Earth-154) G.I. Generation: Batman (Earth-2) Lost Generation: Batman (Elseworld's Finest) Missionary Generation: Batman (Batman/Houdini: The Devil's Workshop)
Progressive Generation: Batman (JLA: Age of Wonder) Gilded Generation: Batman (The Blue, The Grey, and the Bat) |
|
|
|
Post by johnreiter902 on Sept 15, 2019 11:46:58 GMT
One cool idea occurred to me. What if there was a JLA-JSA type story where the heroes from Earth-18 crossed over with Earth-1876, the same way the JLA and JSA did in their first team-up. The League of Science would view the Justice Riders the same way that the Justice League viewed the Justice Society, since they come from the same relative places on the Generational cycle.
|
|
|
|
Post by DocQuantum on Jan 5, 2020 2:34:49 GMT
I was just reading Adventures of Superman #520 published at Christmas, 1994 (cover dated Feb. 1995), and was shocked to see that Superman stated that Lois Lane (and thus also himself by extension) is a Baby Boomer. This would seem to cut against the idea that the Post-Crisis DCU's Superman and Batman are Generation X. I'd suggest that the Superman and Batman of this era extend from 1986 to 1999/2000 or so, when certain continuity changes make it apparent that their personal histories have changed. Perhaps the Superman and Batman who first appear around 1999/2000 are Generation X.
|
|
|
|
Post by johnreiter902 on Jan 5, 2020 21:21:10 GMT
Could be. I would postulate that Earth-247 is the transitional Earth, where the heroes are Baby Boomers, but about ten years younger, from the other end of that period.
|
|
|
|
Post by DocQuantum on Jan 5, 2020 22:28:58 GMT
Some more thoughts:
I believe 1964 is the start of Gen-X, which if the note in AOS #520 is correct, would mean that Lois Lane and Superman are in their early-to-late thirties in the early 1990s. This would probably be true of ALL the "old guard" heroes who were founding members of the JLA, but it would not conclude that ALL the heroes around in the Post-Crisis era were Baby Boomers. Indeed, the younger ones from Wally West (the version who existed then, not the original 1959 version who would have been a Baby Boomer) to Robin (Tim Drake) would be Gen-X.
Also, from memory I believe there are some distinctive qualities to late Baby Boomers to designate them in a sub-group. My mother-in-law is a late Baby Boomer, being born in the late 1950s, and has many of the qualities of the Baby Boomers, but because of her younger age she missed some hallmarks like the Peace Movement and such. I'd say the Superman and old guard heroes of the 1990s fit into this Late Baby Boomer group fairly well. A brief Google search reveals several possible names for this generation born from the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s, but no real consensus as far as I can tell.
|
|
