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Post by dans on Nov 24, 2019 0:06:02 GMT
In Master Comics #26 Bulletman and Bulletgirl are on an airliner flying to San Francisco. It is attacked by 5 Japanese fighters because an important general is on board. They radio the plane to follow them, and the general agrees, so the rest of the passengers won't be hurt. The heroes fly out of the plane and take out 4 of the fighters, the 5th shoots down the airliner. Bulletgirl rescues the general. Bulletman chases the fighter, which lands on an iceberg and disappears. Bulletman figured the plane skidded off the other side of the iceberg into the water and the pilot and Japanese superspy Hissyu (who stutters, btw) must be dead. Jim and Susan show up just as the general is reporting that everyone on the plane died, claiming that Bulletman rescued them. Jim gives the general a note from Bulletman that Hissyu is dead. The general calls off the search for the spy, and the next day, the Japanese ship hidden in the iceberg sinks a freighter carrying supplies to the Pacific forces.
So far, their actions have caused the deaths of all but 3 people on the plane, and everyone on the freighter. And these are the HEROES!
Read another story about a hero named Twilight, a Marine in his secret ID. He is assigned to protect a foreign diplomat named Wilmer, who is murdered on the next page - as Twilight watches! Eventually the bad guys are caught, and the Marine's CO says this to him "Too bad about Wilmer, but we did round up that Nazi gang..."
In practically every Mr. Scarlett story, somebody Mr. Scarlett should protect dies.
I just read the next two pages in the Bulletman story. The concealed Japanese submarine sinks the cutter the General is on, and Bulletgirl rescues him. But the rest of the crew dies.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Nov 24, 2019 3:28:45 GMT
No hero is perfectly successful all the time, even Superman. Honestly, though, they are still probably more effective on average then ordinary law-enforcement officers.
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Post by dans on Nov 24, 2019 16:37:45 GMT
I am astounded by the number of deaths in Bulletman stories. Deaths that come _after_ they are on the case. I would rather take my chances with a murder than have Bulletman protecting me!
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Post by jonclark on Nov 29, 2019 6:12:57 GMT
I think it comes down to the question of how effective the villain is more than how effective the hero is.
Suppose we put a fictional hero up against a real life serial killer. Do we say that on the hero's Earth they were ineffective because four people died or compare it to the real world where the killer claimed over half a dozen victims before being caught?
In the Bulletman and Bulletgirl story would the death toll have been lower without their involvement or would Hissyu have killed everyone on that plane (including the general) as well as the freighter the next day? Would Wilmer have survived if someone other than Twilight had been guarding him? Would his Nazi gang have been caught faster in real life?
I've always read most heroes as simply being better able to deal with their foes in the long-run, but not necessarily able to prevent those foes from committing any crime. The Joker might kill half-a-dozen people before Batman stops him, but if the Gotham Police didn't have Batman's help the death toll would be far higher. Superman stops the mad scientist from destroying Metropolis but until the guy starts the attack (resulting in at least one death) there is nothing to let Superman know the scientist exists.
I don't think any super or pulp hero ever stopped someone with murderous intentions before at least one murder (and usually several) occurred.
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Post by dans on Nov 29, 2019 14:48:27 GMT
I think any competent bodyguard would have prevented Wilmer's death, yes. And I doubt if in real life, his CO would have been so cheerful about a Marine failing his assignment.
And if Jim Barr had spent more than 3 seconds investigating the airplane falling off the iceberg and sinking instantly he would have prevented many deaths. He couldn't have been more than a couple of seconds behind the plane; it could not possibly have sunk that fast. Even the General was pissed at him for being so stupid.
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