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Tomahawk
Oct 6, 2023 16:32:08 GMT
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Post by lee on Oct 6, 2023 16:32:08 GMT
I was curious as to which earth Tomahawk is on. Is he strictly an Earth-2 or Earth-1 character, or does he have a counterpart on both Earth's?
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Post by DocQuantum on Oct 6, 2023 18:30:23 GMT
I think he's on both Earths, personally, but I can't recall off the top of my head why I came to that conclusion. We know he's on Earth-2 for sure because Miss Liberty is an ancestress of Liberty Belle, leader of the All-Star Squadron. The case for Tomahawk on Earth-1 is less solid, but based on a JLA-JSA crossover and an appearance in Crisis that both appear to take place on Earth-1, he's probably Earth-1 as well (I use similar reasoning for Black Pirate). There might be some differences between the characters, too. Often for long-running characters from that time period they eventually have stories that directly contradict each other, and in those cases sometimes one story can be placed on Earth-2 and the other story can be placed on Earth-1, even if the majority of the stories could take place on either/both Earths.
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Post by dave on Oct 6, 2023 19:45:55 GMT
Tomahawk probably on Earths one, two, and a host of others as his tales span from the 1940's to the Revolutionary War plus the adventures of his son Hawk in the early 1810's and show the frontiersman alive and well. His stories like most DC's WWII characters were no doubt active on multiple earths.
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Post by redsycorax on Oct 6, 2023 22:51:38 GMT
According to the DC Fandom website, Tomahawk (the comic) ran from September 1950- June 1972. This means he's one of those "straddler" characters who exists across the Earth-One/Earth-Two demarcation point in 1955 and who therefore does exist on both Earths: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Tomahawk_Vol_1 . One key difference might be that in the later issues of Tomahawk, his son Hawk was introduced. This occurred in Tomahawk 131 (December 1970), which means that the Earth-One Tomahawk has a son, while his Earth-Two counterpart does not, or has differently named offspring: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Hawk_Haukins_(New_Earth)Tomahawk also had a group of followers, the Tomahawk Rangers, first introduced in Tomahawk 83 (December 1962). Again, this would seem to indicate that they existed on Earth-One but perhaps not on Earth-Two, unless there are JLA/JSA crossover events that do depict Earth-Two equivalents. What inclusion does exist is ambivalent. Depending on whether the Rangers, Moon Fawn or Hawk show up alongside any Tomahawk appearances in that context, that may mean the character is the Earth-One Tomahawk: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Rangers Their final appearance was in Tomahawk 130 (October 1970). There's also the matter of Moon Fawn, Tomahawk's Apache wife and the mother of Hawk, who also appeared for the first time in Tomahawk 131 (December 1970). It would therefore seem that the Earth-One Tomahawk may have a family, and that his Earth-Two counterpart does not, or may have a differently named wife and offspring. The Earth-Two Tomahawk first appeared in Star Spangled Comics 69 (December 1947), with a sidekick called Daniel Hunter. How long that partnership lasted for may be discerned by looking over the Tomahawk comic series precis on the DC Fandom site: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Dan_Hunter_(Earth-Two) NB: Having done so, I can confirm that this is another 'straddler' character. There seems to be an Earth-One Daniel Hunter as well. Daniel's last appearance alongside Tomahawk occurred in Tomahawk 82 (October 1962), shortly before the arrival of the aforementioned Tomahawk Rangers. If Daniel Hunter shows up alongside Tomahawk in any JLA/JSA crossover/time travel stories, then that may mean the depicted Tomahawk is either from Earth-One or Earth-Two.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Oct 7, 2023 1:15:24 GMT
We know that Tomwhawk is on Earth-2, because Miss Liberty is the ancestor of Liberty Belle
and we know he is also on Earth-1, based on Limited Collectors' Edition Vol 1 C-47, where Superman views him in the past
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Post by DocQuantum on Oct 7, 2023 2:52:57 GMT
We know that Tomwhawk is on Earth-2, because Miss Liberty is the ancestor of Liberty Belle and we know he is also on Earth-1, based on Limited Collectors' Edition Vol 1 C-47, where Superman views him in the past Yep, and Tomahawk met Wonder Girl and Firehawk as well.
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Tomahawk
Oct 7, 2023 15:33:36 GMT
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Post by lee on Oct 7, 2023 15:33:36 GMT
Since he sort of ties in with a story I'm working on, I will be using the Earth-1 setting. Thanks for the info.
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Post by dave on Oct 7, 2023 17:36:12 GMT
Dan Hunter was apparently on different duty with the Revolutionary Army once Tomahawk formed his Rangers. Though he accompanied them on several missions with his last being in Tomahawk Vol 1 #123 July 1968. Dan's appearance in Tomahawk Vol 1 #133 March 1971 was a flashback. Below is a list of all his appearances
Star-Spangled Comics Vol 1 #69 June 1947 – Star-Spangled Comics Vol 1 #130 July 1952, Tomahawk Vol 1 #1 September 1950 – Tomahawk Vol 1 #92 May 1964, Tomahawk Vol 1 #95 November 1964, Tomahawk Vol 1 #99 July 1965 - Tomahawk Vol 1 #101 November 1965, Tomahawk Vol 1 #105 July 1966, Tomahawk Vol 1 #114 January 1968 - Tomahawk Vol 1 #116 May 1968, Tomahawk Vol 1 #123 July 1968, Tomahawk Vol 1 #133 March 1971, World's Finest Vol 1 # 65 July 1953 – World's Finest Vol 1 #88 May 1957, World's Finest Comics Vol 1 #90 September 1957 – World's Finest Comics Vol 1 #101 May 1959. World's Finest Comics Vol 1 #33 March 1948 – World's Finest Comics Vol 1 #35 July 1948.
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Tomahawk
Nov 24, 2023 4:19:50 GMT
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Post by lee on Nov 24, 2023 4:19:50 GMT
So, Tomahawk was active during the Anglo-French War (French and Indian War), which is when he meets Dan Hunter. This war officially occurred from 1754 to 1763. That in itself is not a problem until you start trying to figure his age. He fathers Hawk in 1800, who begins his own adventures in 1818. At this time, Tomahawk's age is assumed to be 80. This puts his birth year at 1738. It also means he was 62 years old when he gathered Hawk. He would have been 16 when the war started, but in Star-Spangled Comics #69 where he first appears, he looks to be at least 20. If I have him not becoming an active participant until the late 1750s, that would give him time to accumulate the experience he needs to become the character we read about. If no one objects to this, I can put him joining the war in 1758.
That just leaves the question of why he waited so long before having kids.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Nov 24, 2023 12:59:24 GMT
I posted a thread here where I listed all the appearances of Tomahawk which mention a specific date. His career is confirmed to span 1750-1795
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Tomahawk
Nov 25, 2023 16:47:09 GMT
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Post by lee on Nov 25, 2023 16:47:09 GMT
So, after reading through John's chronology (and downloading every comic on the list), it looks like the E-1 Tomahawk will need a slightly modified start date to his career since he has kids. If I keep his first adventure in 1750, his date of birth would have to be moved to around 1832, otherwise he would have been 12 years old. This should only affect the adventures that take place before 1756; everything from then on will drop into place. Since we know this will be the E-1 version, there shouldn't be a problem.
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Post by lee on Nov 25, 2023 16:53:55 GMT
This also brings up the issue of the E-1 version of Miss Liberty. We know she encountered the Justice League, which places her on their earth, so the only changes to her history should be her descendants. Who knows? There might still be a heroic descendant on E-1 that has yet to make an appearance.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Nov 26, 2023 19:02:34 GMT
Interesting
If Tomahawk is born in 1732, that would make him the same age as George Washington. I like that
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Tomahawk
Nov 27, 2023 0:37:51 GMT
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Post by lee on Nov 27, 2023 0:37:51 GMT
Interesting If Tomahawk is born in 1732, that would make him the same age as George Washington. I like that We could say the original E-2 Tomahawk was born in 1732 while the E-1 version was born in 1738. That still puts him active from just before the start of the Revolutionary War.
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