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Post by dans on Apr 14, 2024 13:34:17 GMT
in the mid-70s, where do Carter and Sheira Hall live? I believe they are curators of a museum, do we know the name or their titles? Might it be a private museum and they are the owners? Thanks!
Dan
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Post by lawrenceliberty on Apr 14, 2024 15:12:05 GMT
One of their homes is Hall Manor located in Westchester County New York so perhaps their museum is nearby.
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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 14, 2024 20:18:39 GMT
in the mid-70s, where do Carter and Sheira Hall live? I believe they are curators of a museum, do we know the name or their titles? Might it be a private museum and they are the owners? Thanks! Dan You're right that Carter and Shiera Hall have a private museum. It is located in their main home, which was probably moved from Carter Hall's home in Manhattan in Flash Comics #1, and by the 1970s was moved to Hall Manor in Westchester County, which offered them more room. The private museum was seen in All-Star Comics #62. Although the Halls have multiple residences, it seems that the one they actually resided in most of the time contained the actual private museum, and I believe that to be Hall Manor. The Earth-1 Halls were curators of a public museum in Midway City, but that wasn't the case on Earth-2.
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Post by dans on Apr 16, 2024 11:27:00 GMT
I am going to call it the Westchester Hall of Legacy if that sounds OK?
Totally different subject - are there any stories of earlier incarnations of the Hawks than as Prince Khufu and priestess Chay-Ara in Egypt? Was that their first incarnation?
(oops, I see in one place that it was exposure to Nth Metal that gave them the ability to reincarnate...)
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Post by lawrenceliberty on Apr 17, 2024 14:45:47 GMT
I was thinking on Earth 2- pre-crisis continuity, they lived in ancient Egypt and were killed by Hath-Set with a special knife. When Carter received the knife from Prof. James Rock (?) around 1939 or so, contact with the knife made him remember "a" past life in which he lived in ancient Egypt and died there. I thought on E-2 he did not have any lives between the one as Prince Khufu and the modern one as Carter.
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Post by dans on Apr 17, 2024 15:29:42 GMT
I was thinking on Earth 2- pre-crisis continuity, they lived in ancient Egypt and were killed by Hath-Set with a special knife. When Carter received the knife from Prof. James Rock (?) around 1939 or so, contact with the knife made him remember "a" past life in which he lived in ancient Egypt and died there. I thought on E-2 he did not have any lives between the one as Prince Khufu and the modern one as Carter. Well, if that is the case, I probably have to rewrite the Legion of Justice story, which specifically refers to several different reincarnations. I hope multiple reincarnations is NOT just Post-Crisis!!
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Post by lawrenceliberty on Apr 17, 2024 21:03:28 GMT
I don't think there is anything wrong with establishing that they did have other reincarnations. Perhaps, memories of those lives resurfaced over time but were still buried during Hawkman's earliest cases.
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Post by jonclark on Apr 19, 2024 6:36:41 GMT
I don't think there is anything wrong with establishing that they did have other reincarnations. Perhaps, memories of those lives resurfaced over time but were still buried during Hawkman's earliest cases. Whether they did or didn't have other lives between Khufu's time and 1939 the Pre-Crisis stories told seem to imply that remembering the past lives wasn't the way it was Post-Hawkworld. Carter lived his life with no idea he's ever been Khufu until that knife crossed his path and Shiera only remembered the life after meeting Carter. So I'd assume if they had lives in-between there is nothing to say they were heroic. Carter could have lived as a serf in the Middle Ages who never left the land he was born on (and never realized anything about Egypt). Shiera could have been a woman who died during from the Black Death at age 11. Not saying anyone wants to read or write whole stories about this type of thing, just that we also don't need to try creating a whole legacy of heroes that were all Hankman or Hawkwoman during an earlier incarnation. Nor do we need to imply that every prior incarnation had Carter and Shiera as lovers. He could have been that serf in France in 1224 while she was incarnated in what would one day be America. Or one of them could have been incarnated in the 10th century while the other was not reborn during that century at all. And as for the Legion of Justice- it could be that after they were Hawkman and Hawkwoman later incarnations were actually looked for (especially by other JSA descendants) so there are better records and/or things like the knife (or the Hawk-gear) being used to bring back memories
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Post by dans on Apr 19, 2024 11:05:24 GMT
In the Legion of Justice story, Prince Khufu is incarnated as a human/Fetherian hybrid, so his memory of the past might be enhanced because of his dual heritage. Plus he comes from an alternate future, so I think that given those things, plus what Jon has suggested, Hawkboy is covered.
Apparently the long list of Khufu's prior incarnation that seemingly includes nothing but famous heroic figures from the past is Post-Crisis? Which would leave us free to write stories about him or not, if someone had the inclination. And I agree that he doesn't have to be a mighty hero in every incarnation, or encounter Shay-Ara in every incarnation. But if anyone does want to write about earlier incarnations, I suggest there should be at least one incarnations where Shay-Ara was the mightiest hero of the times.
I was mostly curious about what roles they might have played in incarnations before the Egypt story, but the suggestion that Nth metal somehow allowed them to be reincarnated resolves that - but it leaves open the question of, is everyone they encounter as Hawkman and Hawkwoman while wearing their Nth metal belts now available to reincarnate?
None of this really impacts my current story, I was just curious about the history of the Hawks and didn't want to put something into the story that would violate our own canon.
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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 19, 2024 15:25:57 GMT
In the Pre-Crisis Earth-2, there was no "Chay-Ara" -- that is a Post-Crisis invention. She was Princess Shiera in ancient Egypt. Roy Thomas even came up with a historically accurate explanation why Prince Khufu was blonde.
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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 19, 2024 15:30:57 GMT
By the way, when I wrote my Earth-2 Vigilante story last year, I wrote Nighthawk and Lady Whiplash in with the thought that they were previous incarnations of Carter Hall and Shiera Sanders, though I didn't make it obvious. I think Libby's explanation makes the most sense -- the most memorable of their incarnations was the ancient Egyptian one in which they were murdered by Hath-Set. The other incarnations such as Nighthawk & Lady Whiplash or the Silent Knight and Lady Celia might only ever be recalled during certain cases, or perhaps never in Hawkman and Hawkgirl's lifetime.
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Post by dans on Apr 20, 2024 11:51:40 GMT
I would like to have Carter and Shiera carry modern versions of maces and flails and other ancient weapons. After all, if you took an ancient mace to Superman, you would end up at least damaging and perhaps destroying an irreplaceable ancient artifact, and they have too much respect, as museum curators, to just wreck valuable museum exhibits.
Does it seem unlikely that somewhere in the JSA brownstone, perhaps in a sub-basement constructed with the super powers of some of the members, that there might be machine shops and forges where they might have been able to create maces and flails and swords using titanium and stainless steel instead of cast iron? And while they were at it, might they have asked one of their magic-using colleagues to enchant these modern replicas to be more damage resistant and also lighter and easier to wield?
Obviously with JSA priority they could have had these things built for them at some other large forging operation where they work titanium all the time, but I think Carter, at least, would prefer the personal touch of making them himself.
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Post by dave on Apr 20, 2024 16:59:19 GMT
Given the destructive power of Hawkman's mace from knocking foe unconscious to smashing walls down with a single blow I think his favorite go to mace is magical in nature
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Post by dans on Apr 20, 2024 17:04:47 GMT
yeah, that could be, although I don't believe they ever stated that specifically. Good point
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