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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 15, 2021 2:50:11 GMT
On reflection, I realize now that a Bruce Wayne-Black Widow romance is probably unlikely. There is a significant age difference, plus Natasha was not widowed until Bruce was in semi-retirement. It's not impossible, of course, but highly unlikely.
She could be the love interest of Batman II (Bucky)
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shlomo
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Post by shlomo on Jul 15, 2021 20:53:50 GMT
They might be colleagues from his arrival in New York City from whatever real-world small town Clark came from Except for whatever rule of earth-616 physics that keeps all superheroes in the New York metro-area, I'd think Superman would be in Cleveland, where the earliest issues of Action Comics take place. On the other hand, he could start there and move to NYC once he has to start filling in for whomever he's switched with. As to his background, the radio show said he was from a farm outside Centerville, Iowa--it's real. If you switch his with the Human Torch, Toro would be like Captain Marvel Jr. or Supergirl, introduced and promptly given their own feature so the main hero can keep doing business as usual.
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Post by DocQuantum on Jul 15, 2021 23:09:42 GMT
They might be colleagues from his arrival in New York City from whatever real-world small town Clark came from Except for whatever rule of earth-616 physics that keeps all superheroes in the New York metro-area, I'd think Superman would be in Cleveland, where the earliest issues of Action Comics take place. On the other hand, he could start there and move to NYC once he has to start filling in for whomever he's switched with. As to his background, the radio show said he was from a farm outside Centerville, Iowa--it's real. If you switch his with the Human Torch, Toro would be like Captain Marvel Jr. or Supergirl, introduced and promptly given their own feature so the main hero can keep doing business as usual. Those are all great ideas. And yeah, Cleveland was basically Superman's home base at first. I'd see him being there from 1938 to 1940, and then 1940 on in New York City. Perhaps he was transferred to a different newspaper owned by the same company (not sure about newspaper ownership laws back then -- they had a lot more independent news back then, before we got basically 5 or 6 big corporation-owned media conglomerates as we have now). Of course, that throws a bit of a wrench in my Betty Dean theory. The Clark/Lois/Superman dynamic would be lost in those first couple of years at least. I wonder if something would replace it. I'm tempted to use the Marvel Cleveland connection to include Howard the Duck somehow, but it's several decades too early.
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 16, 2021 1:02:04 GMT
Yes, I'd thought about the Batman I age angle as well and I'm quite okay with Bucky/Batman II falling for Black Widow instead. However, if we're talking about the All-Winners Squad, what say Bruce falls for the Blonde Phantom instead, although I know she didn't show up until 1948. That could, however, have been her first recorded appearance though. Moreover, despite it being slightly post-war, Blonde Phantom's combat proficiency could attract Bruce (rather like that of Catwoman in mainstream continuity): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blonde_PhantomAnd if you're thinking about a romance for Clark, there's always Madeleine Joyce (Miss America). I'd say her rather than Wonder Woman, who seems to have been established as Nick Fury's lover in this narrative thus far: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_America_(Madeline_Joyce)The question is, how far would that go? Would Clark and Madeleine get married?
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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 16, 2021 2:28:58 GMT
Except for whatever rule of earth-616 physics that keeps all superheroes in the New York metro-area, I'd think Superman would be in Cleveland, where the earliest issues of Action Comics take place. On the other hand, he could start there and move to NYC once he has to start filling in for whomever he's switched with. As to his background, the radio show said he was from a farm outside Centerville, Iowa--it's real. If you switch his with the Human Torch, Toro would be like Captain Marvel Jr. or Supergirl, introduced and promptly given their own feature so the main hero can keep doing business as usual. Those are all great ideas. And yeah, Cleveland was basically Superman's home base at first. I'd see him being there from 1938 to 1940, and then 1940 on in New York City. Perhaps he was transferred to a different newspaper owned by the same company (not sure about newspaper ownership laws back then -- they had a lot more independent news back then, before we got basically 5 or 6 big corporation-owned media conglomerates as we have now). Of course, that throws a bit of a wrench in my Betty Dean theory. The Clark/Lois/Superman dynamic would be lost in those first couple of years at least. I wonder if something would replace it. I'm tempted to use the Marvel Cleveland connection to include Howard the Duck somehow, but it's several decades too early. The Bette Dean connection could still work. She didn't become a reporter until 1940 at least. Right on time for Superman to relocate to New York. It just means that Superman will not have a love interest in his early adventures.
Here's something else I've been thinking of, what will the 1960s rogues galleries of Superman, Batman II, and Wonder Woman look like? Wonder Woman I can see fighting most of Captain America's foes, and some of SHIELD's, given her connections to Nick Fury. Batman I assume will steal some foes from Iron Man's rogues gallery, who attack Wayne Enterprises instead of Stark Industries. He will also probably fight some of the foes of Spider-Man and Daredevil, the more crime-buster type heroes. As for Superman, he will probably fight some of the threats which would otherwise have been dealt with by the Fantastic Four, as well as some of the major threats from the other heroes' adventures.
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 16, 2021 2:48:49 GMT
How would they approach someone like Magneto, when he comes along, though? Given that Superman and wonder Woman would have been in on the end of the Second World War, they'd have been there when the Holocaust's existence was revealed to the world as a whole, in which Hitler also killed thousands of mutants. It would be extremely difficult for either of them not to feel some sympathy for Erik's motivation, if not his objectives- Clark especially would be able to empathise, given his whole world was wiped out (apart from Kara, whom he didn't know about at the time). Wonder Woman would probably have been alongside Nick and the Howling Commandos when Auschwitz and the other camps were liberated and they got the chance to look in there.
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 16, 2021 2:58:28 GMT
And as for Earth-Two, who gets whose supervillains there? I can certainly see Alexei Luthor and the Joker taking on Captain America, with Human Torch taking on the more quotidian league Batman rogues gallery characters. Which leaves Submariner pitted against Wonder Woman's rogues, which aren't particularly inspiring apart from the Cheetah. And how would she get along, pitted against a male superhero of ambiguous affiliation? Could there even be some attraction there? I don't think Wonder Woman's rogues would be particularly effective against Cap, although neither would the Prankster or Toyman.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 16, 2021 12:48:42 GMT
The Torch will have to use his brains a bit more to keep up with Batman's rogues. Cap may have to pick up a few of those. In general, though, I think the adventures would be the same, the Torch would just handle them differently then Batman did.
Baroness von Gunther is basically a female version of Zemo, which is why I had her become Cap's arch enemy. I think he would find Wonder Woman's rogues to be good opposition.
The Sub-Mariner's power set is close enough to Superman's that I think he could handle most of Superman's WW2 foes. Since he will be hanging around Metropolis to be with Lois Lane, he will encounter most of them. One funny thought I had was Mr. Mxyztplk. Sub-Mariner is DEFINITELY not suited to a battle of witts with that imp. Maybe Cap of the Human Torch could trick him, but not Namor.
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Post by dans on Jul 16, 2021 23:54:59 GMT
Namor would probably try to kill Mxy and maybe scare him enough that Mxy leaves him alone.
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 17, 2021 0:13:53 GMT
Okay, so what about Alexei Luthor? Would he also target Cap? Perhaps some collaboration between Paula and Alexei might arise at some point in their relationship, or perhaps something even more than that? And would Mxy necessarily be the imp that pesters Submariner? Without an Aquaman, might Namor's resident nuisance be Qwsp instead? The latter would be more suited to a maritime environment: aquaman.fandom.com/wiki/Qwsp
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Post by DocQuantum on Jul 17, 2021 0:28:13 GMT
I don't think the Earth-2 Aquaman is going anywhere, so he'd be in the same world as Namor. Also, the Earth-2 Aquaman is not Atlantean by birth, but instead was given his powers by his famous explorer father, who used ancient sunken Atlantean technology to grant his son the powers of Aquaman. It would be VERY interesting if Aquaman's father turned out to be Leonard McKenzie. It's worthwhile to note that the Earth-2 Aquaman was never given the name of Arthur Curry. That was only introduced in his Silver Age origin story. So conceivably he could be named Arthur McKenzie. He and Namor could be half-brothers, which is fitting given the Earth-1 Aquaman's relationship with his half-brother Orm, alias Ocean Master. I'd imagine there would be a friendly rivalry between the two brothers, and I'd imagine some anti-human racism coming up regularly in Namor's verbiage, and possibly the other way, too (though Aquaman is a bit more straight-laced, so I can't see him as the instigator). And there would undoubtedly be occasional brawling that might end up at a pub somewhere. If Namora doesn't exist on Earth-2, Aquaman might end up having a similar (though more brotherly) relationship with Namor.
Qwisp being from Earth-1 isn't really a factor here.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 17, 2021 1:38:04 GMT
Very interesting indeed. I feel like Aquaman and the Sub-Mariner are destined to be good friends.
Luthor is a hard question. His first appearance in 1940 had him fomenting war between two nations in Eastern Europe. Cap still hadn't gotten his powers yet at that point, and It's a little out of the Human Torch's usual stomping grounds. Lois Lane would probably still be sent to investigate, and Namor might follow, if he is already dating her at this point.
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Post by DocQuantum on Jul 17, 2021 2:25:27 GMT
Does anyone want to take a crack at writing out (or copying) a synopsis of an important story starring, say, Superman, and then rewrite it to show how it might play out differently if it stars someone else like Namor? I think that might take this discussion to the next level.
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 18, 2021 2:43:33 GMT
Perhaps there could be some slight rejigging of either Cap or Luthor's first appearance, so one of Cap's first missions is to head off to Xslavia to stop Luthor's warmongering? Perhaps introduce Alexei a little earlier than on Earth-Two originally?
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Post by dans on Jul 18, 2021 21:56:52 GMT
Why not start at the beginning and rewrite the stories from Action Comics #1?
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