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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 2, 2022 16:49:34 GMT
I've started reading the characters that appear most often in the All-Star Squadron series, beginning with Johnny Quick. I figure I'll read all the appearances that take place before the Squadron was formed, and then read the entire All-Star Squadron series, paying special attention to Roy's favorites. So far I'm going to read the following: - Johnny Quick
- Liberty Belle
- Robotman
- Tarantula
- Shining Knight
- Commander Steel
- Atom
- Hawkman & Hawkgirl
The last two should really be part of my JSA reading, but I've read most of those characters before. I may have to read again, but index them this time. |
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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 2, 2022 16:55:30 GMT
So far, the Johnny Quick stories are very quirky and kind of terrible. IMO, they're not really worth reading until the great Mort Meskin starts drawing the series with More Fun Comics #76.
In the early stories we see Johnny Quick being VERY haphazard with his secret identity, which seems interchangeable with Johnny Chambers several times, and he often uses some random facts to solve a case. He also does some strange stuff that raised my eyebrows, like suddenly holding a match in front of a blind man's eyes to prove he's really blind, but I guess that's no worse than what 1940s heroes typically do by punching out crooks/suspects first and asking questions later. It just makes Johnny look a bit unstable, which I guess is part of his "hothead" personality explored by Roy Thomas in All-Star Squadron.
His early costume looks just like a circus acrobat's and is very generic looking at first, so in his retelling of the origin Roy Thomas makes it a circus acrobat costume given to him by the circus where he's filming for the day. In the original comics, the costume takes a while to slowly change into the familiar short-sleeved costume we know, but the secret origin retelling retcons this by showing Johnny altering the original acrobat costume given to him by the circus into the final Johnny Quick costume we know and love -- so according to this Earth-2 retcon Johnny ALWAYS had the short-sleeved costume with the winged insignia, not later on as in the original stories. "The Origin of Johnny Quick," All-Star Squadron #65 (January, 1987)
Nicknames: The King of Speed, the Mile-a-Moment Marvel of All Time (or just the Mile-a-Moment Marvel).
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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 2, 2022 16:58:19 GMT
Doctor Clever is introduced as Johnny Quick's only recurring foe in the early stories. First appearance is More Fun Comics #74 (December, 1941).
At first he appears to be just a con-man with a lot of tricks and a little bit of chemistry knowledge, but he soon becomes a full-on scientist with advanced equipment, including a machine that can temporarily grant super-speed to one of his henchman, Breezy, who becomes known as the Speed Wizard or the Human Streak until Johnny puts a stop to his antics with an antidote to speed. As usual for these villain schemes, Doctor Clever never uses the same trick twice, but it's very possible that Breezy could regain his powers again sometime down the road if we want to give Johnny a recurring super-speedster foe. "The Adventure of the Human Streak," More Fun Comics #76 (February, 1942)
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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 2, 2022 17:13:58 GMT
As a side note, there's a much later story from 1950 that purports to expand on Johnny Quick's origin story, but really doesn't work in the continuity established by Roy Thomas' secret origin story, and only kind of works if you just use the original golden age continuity.
Instead of Prof. Ezra Gill, the scientist/mathematician who creates the speed formula is named Prof. Bradley, and Johnny Chambers is a grown adult when he gives him the formula instead of being a young teenager at the time. There's another, dark-haired character named Charles Drake who is Prof. Bradley's assistant. Bradley decides to test Johnny before granting him the permanent speed formula by giving him a formula that only works temporarily, and gives Charles Drake the same temporary formula, since he reasons that he should test more than one person to judge worthiness. While Johnny (in full costume already) goes out and immediately starts performing heroic feats, Charles Drake dons an all-black costume and uses his super-speed to amass a fortune through theft before the speed runs out. At first Prof. Bradley fears it is Johnny who is responsible for the super-speed crimes, and takes actions to remotely cause the temporary speed formula to run out faster (seems completely magical at this point rather than scientific), and Johnny is the first to lose his speed. Luckily, he still defeats Charles Drake, who is arrested for his crimes, and Johnny proves worthy to receive the REAL speed formula.
Some have suggested that this story could work on Earth-3 as the basis for the origin story of the Earth-3 Johnny Quick, but I'm not so sure. I think Libby may have used Charles Drake as the E-3 Johnny's real name, but I don't know if the story itself actually takes place on Earth-3. It's a weird outlier.
"The Testing of Johnny Quick," Adventure Comics #159 (December, 1950)
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Post by DocQuantum on Apr 2, 2022 17:26:41 GMT
About the speed formula itself -- 3X2(9YZ)4A -- it is shown that merely reciting the formula does not grant anyone super-speed. Tubby Watts tries to use it but fails, for example. Instead, Roy's secret origin explains that Johnny Chambers had to not only memorize it but also fully understand it, and the only one who understood it more than he was Prof. Gill himself, who did use super-speed at least once in Johnny's presence (though it's possible that he used it before telling young Johnny as well). Johnny Chambers had that speed formula for many years before finally using it -- possibly even 8 years, from no earlier than 1933 to mid-1941. Roy explains that the reason Johnny didn't use it in all those years was twofold: first and foremost, he felt tremendous guilt for failing to use his super-speed effectively enough to save Prof. Gill's life when Johnny was still a teen. Second, there were a few times between 1939 and 1941 when Johnny would have used his speed formula to go into action to save a life, but was beaten to the punch by others such as the Sandman and the Flash. Finally, when Johnny used his formula while at the circus, he seems to have finally decided to be a hero permanently from that point on, his guilt evaporating at the same time. I should mention one weird thing about the original tale from Johnny's first appearance versus Roy's origin story. In the original story from More Fun Comics #71, Johnny refers to several cases that he's already had as Johnny Quick, indicating he's been operating as a hero for a while now. But Roy decided that this story featuring the circus was too good an origin for his costume alone, and relegated those old cases to mere fantasies that Johnny Chambers dreamed about during the years 1939 to 1941 before he finally used the formula as a hero. It's a bit strange, because each of these cases were given full names: - The Case of the Money-Mad Miser
- The Case of the Armored Truck
- The Case of the Murderous Musician
- The Case of the Pharaoh's Mummy
I think a case could be made that these stories DID happen in some form after all, but were somehow wiped from Johnny's memories and only remained as daydreams -- OR perhaps he performed these feats in a form of sleepwalking but didn't recall them once he was fully awake. That could be the case for an expanded origin story, really. Earth-2 seems synonymous with memory-wipes involving time travel, after all, so it's possible even if unlikely. Oh, and one obscure fact about Johnny Quick is that he not only has a speed formula, but also another formula that he can use to slow himself down and stop immediately: Z25(2AB)6. That's something that I don't remember seeing anywhere else, but it shows up in a few early stories and in Roy's origin story. |
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Post by dave on Apr 2, 2022 18:49:17 GMT
Johnny was not satisfied with his costume for some time in the Golden Age early in his career as he kept changing it until the Summer of 1942.
As for his appearances, see below.
Adventure Comics Vol 1 #103 April 1946 - Adventure Comics Vol 1 #204 September 1954, Adventure Comics Vol 1 #206 September 1954 - Adventure Comics Vol 1 #207 December 1954
All-Star Squadron Vol 1 #1 September 1981 - All-Star Comics Vol 2 #24 August 1983, All-Star Comics Vol 2 #26 October 1983 - All-Star Comics Vol 2 #27 November 1983, All-Star Comics Vol 2 #31 March 1984 - All-Star Comics Vol 2 #35 July 1984, All-Star Comics Vol 2 #38 October 1984 - All-Star Comics Vol 2 #42 February 1985, All-Star Comics Vol 2 #44 April 1985 - All-Star Comics Vol 2 #46 June 1985, All-Star Comics Vol 2 #50 October 1985 - All-Star Comics Vol 2 #54 February 1986, All-Star Comics Vol 2 #57 - All-Star Comics Vol 2 #61August 1986, All-Star Comics Vol 2 #65 All- Star Annual Vol 1 #1 June 1982.
Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol 1 #6 September 1985
DC Special Series Vol 1 #11 June 1978,
Justice League of America Vol 1 #193 August 1981, Justice League of America Vol 1 #207 October 1982 - Justice League of America Vol 1 #208 November 1982,
More Fun Comics Vol 1 #71 September 1941 – More Fun Comics Vol 1 #107 January 1946
Secret Origins Vol 2 #7 October 1986, Star-Spangled Comics Vol 1 #16 December 1942
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Post by johnreiter902 on Apr 3, 2022 12:29:01 GMT
As a side note, there's a much later story from 1950 that purports to expand on Johnny Quick's origin story, but really doesn't work in the continuity established by Roy Thomas' secret origin story, and only kind of works if you just use the original golden age continuity. Instead of Prof. Ezra Gill, the scientist/mathematician who creates the speed formula is named Prof. Bradley, and Johnny Chambers is a grown adult when he gives him the formula instead of being a young teenager at the time. There's another, dark-haired character named Charles Drake who is Prof. Bradley's assistant. Bradley decides to test Johnny before granting him the permanent speed formula by giving him a formula that only works temporarily, and gives Charles Drake the same temporary formula, since he reasons that he should test more than one person to judge worthiness. While Johnny (in full costume already) goes out and immediately starts performing heroic feats, Charles Drake dons an all-black costume and uses his super-speed to amass a fortune through theft before the speed runs out. At first Prof. Bradley fears it is Johnny who is responsible for the super-speed crimes, and takes actions to remotely cause the temporary speed formula to run out faster (seems completely magical at this point rather than scientific), and Johnny is the first to lose his speed. Luckily, he still defeats Charles Drake, who is arrested for his crimes, and Johnny proves worthy to receive the REAL speed formula. Some have suggested that this story could work on Earth-3 as the basis for the origin story of the Earth-3 Johnny Quick, but I'm not so sure. I think Libby may have used Charles Drake as the E-3 Johnny's real name, but I don't know if the story itself actually takes place on Earth-3. It's a weird outlier. "The Testing of Johnny Quick," Adventure Comics #159 (December, 1950) Admittedly, I find Johnny Quick's origin a bit difficult to follow, but here's my idea
Essential, Johnny got his powers as a teenager, and then 8 years later debuted in costume saving the circus.
Maybe, the origin from Adventure Comics #159 took place in 1941, shortly before Johnny began his main career, and it explains how he made the decision to become a superhero.
Prof. Bradley learns about Johnny's speed formula, and Johnny tells him how he lost his confidence 8 years ago and guilt has kept him from using his powers. Bradley contrives the test to restore Johnny's confidence, not to prove to himself if Johnny is worthy of the power, but to prove to Johnny that he is worthy of the power.
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Post by dave on Apr 3, 2022 13:08:02 GMT
However Johnny shows up at the New Yorks world's before he demonstrates his superpowers in Sandman's origin tale in Secret Origins Vol 3 #7 October 1986. He may or may not have not felt comfortable using them or did not have them.
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Post by DocQuantum on Sept 24, 2023 3:46:22 GMT
About the speed formula itself -- 3X2(9YZ)4A -- it is shown that merely reciting the formula does not grant anyone super-speed. Tubby Watts tries to use it but fails, for example. Instead, Roy's secret origin explains that Johnny Chambers had to not only memorize it but also fully understand it, and the only one who understood it more than he was Prof. Gill himself, who did use super-speed at least once in Johnny's presence (though it's possible that he used it before telling young Johnny as well). Johnny Chambers had that speed formula for many years before finally using it -- possibly even 8 years, from no earlier than 1933 to mid-1941. Roy explains that the reason Johnny didn't use it in all those years was twofold: first and foremost, he felt tremendous guilt for failing to use his super-speed effectively enough to save Prof. Gill's life when Johnny was still a teen. Second, there were a few times between 1939 and 1941 when Johnny would have used his speed formula to go into action to save a life, but was beaten to the punch by others such as the Sandman and the Flash. Finally, when Johnny used his formula while at the circus, he seems to have finally decided to be a hero permanently from that point on, his guilt evaporating at the same time. I should mention one weird thing about the original tale from Johnny's first appearance versus Roy's origin story. In the original story from More Fun Comics #71, Johnny refers to several cases that he's already had as Johnny Quick, indicating he's been operating as a hero for a while now. But Roy decided that this story featuring the circus was too good an origin for his costume alone, and relegated those old cases to mere fantasies that Johnny Chambers dreamed about during the years 1939 to 1941 before he finally used the formula as a hero. It's a bit strange, because each of these cases were given full names: - The Case of the Money-Mad Miser
- The Case of the Armored Truck
- The Case of the Murderous Musician
- The Case of the Pharaoh's Mummy
I think a case could be made that these stories DID happen in some form after all, but were somehow wiped from Johnny's memories and only remained as daydreams -- OR perhaps he performed these feats in a form of sleepwalking but didn't recall them once he was fully awake. That could be the case for an expanded origin story, really. Earth-2 seems synonymous with memory-wipes involving time travel, after all, so it's possible even if unlikely. Oh, and one obscure fact about Johnny Quick is that he not only has a speed formula, but also another formula that he can use to slow himself down and stop immediately: Z25(2AB)6. That's something that I don't remember seeing anywhere else, but it shows up in a few early stories and in Roy's origin story. So I decided to write this untold tale. It was a lot of fun to write those "mini-cases" of Johnny's from before he was known: Johnny Quick: 1939: Mystery of the Mile-a-Moment Marvel |
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