|
Post by redsycorax on Nov 22, 2022 3:54:03 GMT
So okay, let's take the idea of what would have happened if there had been no Crisis on Infinite Earths and the original DC multiverse survived. Let's speculate.
-The Legion of Super Heroes continues in the Five Years Later timeline, given that there would be no need for a Zero Hour event -The Justice Society continues its generational turnover and legacy succession, eventually evolving into something like Justice Society Infinity. -The Crime Syndicate probably expands its membership over time, but there may be an heroic renaissance on Earth-Three to counteract it. -JLA/JSA team ups will occur every year and there will be encounters with the superheroes of new alternate Earths every three years or so. There will be a Crisis on Earth-Four, Crisis on Earth-Five and so on. -There might also be JLA/JSA team ups that take place in farther flung corners of the DC multiverse- such as ancient Atlantis, Zrfff, and so on. -Like the Justice Society, the Justice League will accept legacy heroes of its own, former protegees of the frontline heroes.
|
|
|
Post by johnreiter902 on May 20, 2023 17:22:53 GMT
My "Original future of Earth-1" post got me thinking about this again. Obviously, all of that would happen is there was not Crisis.
Other things that might happen; Justice League of America #199 I think suggested that Captain Comet would eventually join the JLA, and that Zatanna would marry Wally West after he became the Flash. However, those comments may not have been cannon.
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 23, 2023 14:22:36 GMT
1-Flash / Barry Allen would never have had to die to stop the Anti-Monitor's plans to destroy the remaining Earths with an anti-matter weapon
2-Supergirl / Kara Zor-El / Linda Danvers would never have died murdered by the Anti-Monitor
3-Aquagirl / Tula would never have died in the fight between superheroes and supervillains
4-The Global Guardians would never have been extinguished and replaced by any Justice League International since the Justice League would never have been undone and would probably be accepting other superheroes from other countries as members beyond those who already formed it (such as Argentina , Paraguay, Uruguay, Bolivia, Chile, Venezuela , Colombia , Ecuador , Peru , Mexico , Puerto Rico , Cuba , Guatemala , Portugal , Spain , Italy, Poland, Austria, Sweden, Switzerland, Romania, Netherlands , Bosnia Erzegovina, Finland, Belgium, Hungary , Iceland , Greenland , Belarus, Serbia , Croatia , Jamaica , China , India , Thailand , Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia , Algeria , Libya, United Arab Emirates, Syria , Morocco , Nigeria , Ghana , Senegal , Tanzania , Ethiopia , Uganda , Somalia , Angola , Zimbabwe , Rwanda, Mozambique, Namibia, Democratic Republic of the Congo , South Africa ) among other countries.
5-No undoing Superman's iconic origin and replacing it with that new John Byrne origin so no "Universe Compact" created by the villain The Time Trapper
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 23, 2023 14:24:25 GMT
1-The Omega Men probably would never have had to separate and would continue as a group of cosmic superheroes from the DC Universe who remembered the Guardians of the Galaxy of the Marvel Comics
2-The iconic origin of Hawkman / Katar Hol and Hawkwoman / Shayera Hol would never have had to be altered for the grim and gritty Hawkworld with the militarized fascist versions of these characters
3-Kent Nelson of Earth-2 would continue to be Doctor Fate and consequently there would be no need for him to pass his title and his position from him as Mage Supreme of the DC Universe to Eric and Linda Strauss who merge into one body to generate the new Doctor Fate
4-Probably the heroic counterparts of Earth-1's greatests villains (Ra's al Ghul, Joker, Brainiac, Bizarro, General Zod, Ursa, Non, The Nuclear Man, Cheetah, Silver Swan, Sinestro, Evil Star, Goldface, Giganta, Gorilla Grodd, Reverse-Flash,Captain Cold, Heat Wave, Weather Wizard, Mirror Master, The Riddler, The Scarecrow , Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Penguin, Two-Face, Clayface, Catman, Parasite, Metallo, Mongul, Despero, Kryptonite Man, The Sand Superman, Ocean Master, Black Manta, The Shark / Karshon, Killer Frost, Felix Faust, Tala, The Hyena, Star Sapphire, Merlyn, The Toyman, Steppenwolf, Kalibak, Bernadeth, Lashina, Mad Harriet, Stompa, Blockbuster, Morgaine le Fey, Amazo among others) from Earth-3 would unite for the first time under the command of the counterpart of the good of Lex Luthor forming the group of heroes of the Earth-3 Justice Underground
5-Hal Jordan would probably never have stopped being the Green Lantern of the Space Sector 2814 and never would have had to abandon his title of Green Lantern
6-It is likely that the Crime Syndicate of America would accept villainous counterparts to main Justice League members such as (Supergirl , Superwoman / Kristin Wells Kent , Martian Manhunter , Aquaman , Aquagirl / Lisa Morel, The New Wonder Woman / Orana , Nubia, Orion , Lightray , Mister Miracle , Big Barda , Forager , Ms. Flash / Patty Spivot, Animal Man, Phantom Stranger , Etrigan the Demon, Batgirl , Batwoman / Katherine Rebecca Kane / Kathy Kane, Firestorm, Catwoman , Black Canary , Green Arrow , Hawkman / Katar Hol , Hawkwoman / Shayera Hol , The Atom , Zatanna Zatara , Swamp Thing , Creeper / Jack Ryder, The Elongated Man , Steel / Henry "Hank" Heywood III , Vibe , Vixen , Gypsy among others )
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 25, 2023 13:40:15 GMT
1-Nothing from Superboy Prime Emo Hysterical Genocide Almighty
2-Batman would likely return to the Justice League after the period he spent leading the Outsiders leaving the team under the command of Geo-Force
3-The Green Lantern Corps would likely never disband and continue its role as an interstellar peacekeeper task force
4-Infinity Inc would never have ended and would probably continue to be active receiving heirs and heiresses to the heroic legacy of the Justice Society of America
5-Donna Troy's origin would never have had to be changed to suit Wonder Woman's new origin
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 25, 2023 13:41:05 GMT
1-Probably Mongul and Despero would remain active as two of the most terrible enemies of the Justice League
2-We would still have John Stewart and Guy Gardner as Green Lanterns but they would probably be very different from the versions we are used to knowing
3-Wonder Woman would not have returned to clay with that blast of energy from the Anti-Monitor in the final episode of Crisis on Infinite Earths so probably her classical origin would never have been changed and she would still be alive today
4-The origin of Captain Atom would never have been altered to transform him into an operative at the service of the American government surrounded by corruption
5-Brainiac would still be that technorganic metallic version, cold , calculated that evolved from its green humanoid colluan version we know from Superman comics as one of the worst enemies of the Man of Steel
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 25, 2023 16:32:26 GMT
1-Probably after the phase of Justice League of Detroit the Justice League would reunite again and be formed by the iconic members: Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Firestorm, The Atom, Elongated Man, Zatanna Zatara, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Hawkman (Katar Hol), Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) with the inclusion of new members Steel (Henry "Hank" Heywood III), Vibe, Vixen, Gypsy who would never die nor would be wasted on less important teams as if they were irrelevant characters
2-Superman would still be one of the most powerful living beings in the Universe owner of incalculable superhuman strength capable of moving planets from their orbits, extinguishing stars, surviving unscathed supernova explosions, going against the gravitational pull of black holes, moving whether at speeds infinitely superior to that of light through air , earth or the vacuum of space , hearing a heartbeat miles away , seeing what is happening at interstellar distances ,projecting through the eyes bursts of heat hotter than the sun among other things
3-Flash would remain the Fastest Man Alive and would still be able to run at speeds infinitely superior to that of light
4-The Titans would continue to be formed by Nightwing, Cyborg, Starfire, Wonder Girl (Donna Troy), Kid Flash (Wally West), Beast Boy / Changeling, Jericho, Raven and would likely continue to receive new members superheroes and superheroines juvenile being the main super team of heroes adolescents of the DC Universe
5-Kid Flash (Wally West) would never have had to take the place of from The Flash (Barry Allen) nor would he have his superhuman speed reduced to that of Sound
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 25, 2023 16:33:26 GMT
1-Never would have happened any "For the Man Who Has Everything" consequently Mongul would still be available as one of the Man of Steel's greatest enemy villains nor "Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" because since there was never any Crisis on Infinite Earths that led to a new origin the iconic Superman would continue to exist so there would never have been a need for him to have a last story
2-Lobo would probably still be the previous version of this character that appeared in the Omega Men comics not the big truculent heavy metal biker version
3-Probably Earth-2's Superman Kal-L and his Lois Lane as well as Power Girl / Kara Zor-L / Karen Starr would have had children and grandchildren a long time ago who would form the new generation of "Men and Women of Steel" of Earth-2
4-The Superboy of the Legion of Super-Heroes would continue to be the young Kal-El / Clark Kent of the Earth-1 since there would never have been any Superboy of the Compact Universe created by the villain Time Trapper
5-Aquaman would probably never have had his son murdered by the villain Black Manta, which would culminate in the end of his marriage to Queen Mera and in him abdicating the throne of Atlantis
|
|
|
Post by johnreiter902 on May 26, 2023 0:12:40 GMT
1-Never would have happened any "For the Man Who Has Everything" consequently Mongul would still be available as one of the Man of Steel's greatest enemy villains nor "Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" because since there was never any Crisis on Infinite Earths that led to a new origin the iconic Superman would continue to exist so there would never have been a need for him to have a last story 5-Aquaman would probably never have had his son murdered by the villain Black Manta, which would culminate in the end of his marriage to Queen Mera and in him abdicating the throne of Atlantis Most of what you said I agree with 100%. However, these two storylines I think were both pre-crisis. Even if the Crisis didn't happen, they would still happen.
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 26, 2023 0:22:52 GMT
1-Never would have happened any "For the Man Who Has Everything" consequently Mongul would still be available as one of the Man of Steel's greatest enemy villains nor "Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" because since there was never any Crisis on Infinite Earths that led to a new origin the iconic Superman would continue to exist so there would never have been a need for him to have a last story 5-Aquaman would probably never have had his son murdered by the villain Black Manta, which would culminate in the end of his marriage to Queen Mera and in him abdicating the throne of Atlantis Most of what you said I agree with 100%. However, these two storylines I think were both pre-crisis. Even if the Crisis didn't happen, they would still happen. You're right . I agree with you, probably these two stories and the events they narrate would have happened to Superman even if there had never been a Crisis on Infinite Earths
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 26, 2023 0:27:32 GMT
We also probably wouldn't have had any L.E.G.I.O.N. grim and gritty with no fascist Vril Dox, no absurdities of violence like torturing baby Lydea Mallor
|
|
|
Post by jonclark on May 26, 2023 6:17:14 GMT
|
|
|
Post by jonclark on May 26, 2023 6:53:05 GMT
And in regards to kaiserleomon's ideas- i think the question is how much of there changes were soley Crisis based and how many were coincidental?
Was Barry's killing Reverse-Flash and the resulting trial stretched out and somewhat influenced by Crisis? Or would we still have gotten the same story ending even without Crisis leaving us set up for Wally (or Wolfman's Mac Ryan) to possibly be the Flash?
Since Watchmen and Miller's Dark Knight were not dependent on Crisis- would Batman and other parts of the DC line still go down that dark road?
We already had the Detroit League idea not reigniting salees for the League. So are we sure the next step is an earlier version of Morrison trying to bring back the Big Guns or even without the new multiversal cast was there still a chance for the Bwa-Ha-Ha era? And if so, could that mean Lobo still gets used there as comic relief leading to the same version of him we've had for 30+ years?
Was Hal quitting the GLC because of Crisis or was it cut short by the Post-Crisis shake-ups? Barring Crisis do we just get Hal continuing as the mail Earth GL and possibly no Guardians going away? Could we have gotten a longer John Stewart as GL-2814 run and no return of Guy Gardner?
Other than eliminating any non-Earth 1 character- is there any reason to assume we wouldn't still get Death of Superman in the 1990's (with the Knightfall, Emerald Twilight, Brad Meltzer's reinterpretation of the Satellite JLA ... following)? We might not get the Donna Troy mess if her connection to Diana wasn't reset, but does that make Titans Hunt any less of a quality drop? Or keep any of the bad creative teams from being assigned to characters that gave us dreadful Post-Crisis stories except that they now use them on the un-Crisis versions?
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 26, 2023 14:07:11 GMT
I've been thinking a little. Maybe the "Legends" miniseries would have happened even though there was never any Crisis on Infinite Earths with the following caveats :
1-The Superman and Wonder Woman who would have participated in "Legends" would be the original Pre-Crisis
2-Captain Marvel / Shazam would not have participated in this story because he would continue to be the greatest hero of Earth-S along with his Marvel Family / Shazam Family so he would never have had his confidence in himself shaken by a deception by Darkseid that would have you believe you accidentally killed a villain who actually would be Doctor Bedlam in disguise
3-Doctor Fate would also not participate in the story of "Legends" as he would continue in his role as Mage Supreme of Earth-2 and member of the Justice Society of America. But "maybe" DC was considering passing its title on to Eric Strauss and Linda Strauss but if that happened it would take place on Earth-2 and their adventures would take place there.
4-There would be no need to barbarously murder either Steel or Vibe at the hands of the androids of the Professor Ivo then the Justice League of Detroit if it were to end it would not be with the death of its members and "perhaps" they would pass to the Justice League International that was being thought to debut after "Legends"
5-Batman if by chance he participated in the miniseries "Legends" would be the Pre-Crisis version that is less like Batman from "Dark Knight" by Frank Miller and is a personal friend of Superman and Wonder Woman Pre-Crisis so I think that in an eventual possibility of "Legends" culminating in a JLI he would be a much more jovial and less taciturn leader
|
|
|
Post by kaiserleomon on May 26, 2023 14:07:35 GMT
1-No Blue Beetle / Ted Kord who would be one of the heroes of Earth-4 as an irreparable comedian member of the team if Booster Gold had to do a comedic duo would be with another member
2-No Captain Atom planted as a government spy in the JLI Captain Atom would continue to be one of the heroes of Earth-4 so they would have to get another atomic superhero in his place maybe Firestorm
3-"Perhaps" DC Comics would keep the idea of making Firestorm as an "Elemental of Fire" as well as the Swamp Thing would be the "Elemental of Earth" and this would profoundly affect the way Professor Martin Stein and Ronnie Raymond face it merge to form it
4-The Flash that would have participated in " Legends " would be the original Flash Barry Allen because if Barry Allen never got to sacrifice himself to save the worlds of the Multiverse from the Anti-Monitor then he would never have stopped being the Flash and he would be the official super speedster of JLI
5-Mister Miracle and Oberon would likely have become members of the JLI. I don't see any impediment that would lead them not to become members but probably there would never have been nonsense comic relationships with Blue Beetle since he would never have become a member of the Justice League International or with Booster Gold
6-Guy Gardner would probably still become the JLI's official Green Lantern and still be a scoundrel who thinks he's Rambo who thinks he's the greatest hero to ever exist in the DC Universe and who thinks every other member of the Justice League International isn't nothing more than "supporting" him and that would make the life of the other members of the JLI hell
|
|