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Post by dans on Jun 17, 2023 15:39:02 GMT
If Billy were on Earth 3 and said his magic word, who would respond? Who powers the Earth-3 analog magic word that was given to Billy Badboy by the ancient wizard?
If Mary Batson was visiting the Andromeda Galaxy in her hyper-light speed space cruiser, would her word work that far away? Would the magic lightning be created locally (not far from Mary) or would it have to travel billions of light years to reach her - and would it take billions of light years to go that far at the speed of light, or would it cross that distance instantly?
If Freddy is struck by a bolt Mary calls for, and vice versa, what would the results be? What would happen if one person got struck by 2 magic lightning bolts at exactly the same time?
If Freddy were in a place where there was an echo and he called his hero, would each echo summon another lightning bolt?
If one of the Marvels said their magic world while in a vacuum, I presume it wouldn't work. Would it work if it were said in a different atmosphere? (say, Billy was snorting helium and spoke his magic word while his voice was still distorted?)
What if Freddy said "Capitaine Marvel" or "Kapitän Marvel" or "Capitaneus Mire" or "HomDaj" or "惊奇队长"?
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Post by DocQuantum on Jun 17, 2023 17:54:43 GMT
To answer some of those questions, it would be useful to revisit some of the Marvel Family's stories in which they were in different times and places and said the Magic Word "Shazam"! I suspect some if not all of those questions could be answered in those stories.
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Post by jonclark on Jun 17, 2023 23:21:23 GMT
yeah, you're right. I hope I haven't distracted somebody from one of the high traffic discussions going on here. Sorry, folks! I think all Doc was saying is that he didn't know the answers and offering a place you could look. I suspect that even in the stories there might not be consistent answers. There were times when someone managed to intercept a bolt and gain powers (Zazzo) and the infamous Superman bit where Cap considered using it on Superman but didn't involve removing Superman's powers or increasing them. There was a golden age tale where the bolts were somehow reversed so Billy got powers but Cap had none. That implied a situation where the bolts were manufactured and one of the gods (I think Zeus) was picking one from a pile to transform Billy to Cap, then using one from the other pile to change Cap back to Billy. A JLA-JSA crossover had Johnny Thunder's T-bolt make the transformation for the Marvels in a pinch. Sivanna was able to change the attributes of the gods Cap received in one DC Presents story by I believe actually rewriting the description on the chart the wizard had on the Rock of Eternity. I can't see all three of those methods using the same logic, but all three are in continuity Pre-Crisis. |
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Post by johnreiter902 on Jun 18, 2023 0:28:08 GMT
Here is what I remember from the golden age Captain Marvel stories
As long as the Marvels are anywhere in Universe-S, their magic words work as normal. If they go into another dimension without using the Rock of Eternity, they won't be able to calll the lightning until the wizard locates them. If they are sent through time without using the Rock of Eternity, then they have to draw on the powers of the Rock at that time in history (which may be nothing at all, if they are in a time before Shazam existed)
Despite the fact that Mary has different patrons than Freddy and her brother, the magic lightning bolts seem to be interchangeable.The same is true for Black Adam's magic lightning. It is NOT true for Sabbac, since his powers do not come from Shazam. His magic lightning once turned Freddy into Sabbac Jr.
I think the magic word works as long as it is audible and intelligible.
the other questions I don't know, I would have to look them up.
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Post by dans on Jun 18, 2023 2:07:29 GMT
thanks, guys. I remember that it was actually Zeus who throws the bolts, at least most of the time, and apparently Vulcan who forges them. Sees like a long enough chain that godly error could creep in.
Is there a Captain Marvel analog on Earth-3?
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Post by redsycorax on Jun 18, 2023 2:25:16 GMT
I imagine that, given the Rock of Eternity is dimensionally transcendent, Shazam's lightning could be dispatched to anywhere in the multiverse, except if a sorceror of equal prowess but antithetical morality blocked it. Which leads to the question, does Shazam control the whole Rock of Eternity, or are there portions of it where more malignant savants could hide and empower their own champions for evil? Added to which, I imagine that Shazam has had millennia of practice using magical lightning, so I imagine precision would be used in dispatching them to his chosen champions. Presumably, given that Black Adam and Mary Marvel are empowered using different deities than Cap, and Cap Junior uses Captain Marvel as his trigger word, the content of the magic lightning might be slightly different based on its recipient. Perhaps a magical recipient of the lightning has a quality akin to biomagnetism that attracts the lightning to her or him?
I can't recall any Earth-Three evil Captain Marvel analogues before the restoration of the Multiverse. Earth-Three's villains seemed to be inverted morality versions of Earth-One metahumans, namely the Crime Syndicate, Luthor and Lois Lane-Luthor later on. There might be an inverted morality alternate Earth akin to Earth-S, but I can't remember one. Apart from Captain Thunder pre-Crisis, Earth-S seems to have been the only alternate Earth that had a Marvel Family and Black Adam on it.
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Post by DocQuantum on Jun 18, 2023 4:08:32 GMT
thanks, guys. I remember that it was actually Zeus who throws the bolts, at least most of the time, and apparently Vulcan who forges them. Sees like a long enough chain that godly error could creep in. Is there a Captain Marvel analog on Earth-3? Yeah, I could see something being missed by Zeus. Anything can happen when personalities are involved. As far as a Captain Marvel analog on Earth-3, not as such. But there does exist a good Dr. Sivana analog (Dr. Atlanta) and his Monster Society of Good, and the evil analog of Shazam called "Mazahs" is actually on Earth-3 now, so I think Libby implied that we might see the World's Mightiest Mortal there someday. Speaking of that Mazahs story, it's my theory that the "Masters of Evil" who were the magically created evil doubles of the Squadron of Justice are actually Earth-3 beings magically brought over to Earth-S (or at the very least patterned after the Earth-3 originals) briefly for that story. We have yet to see them on Earth-3 proper, though, so it remains a theory. |
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Post by dans on Jun 18, 2023 12:18:07 GMT
probably our barriers don't block the magic lightning, at least in the 5 Earths universes, but I wonder if the effects of the magic would be the same in every universe? There must be universes with different natural laws and laws of magic.
Interesting speculation about the Masters of Evil. I think things would be simpler if that is what old Maz really did.
What happens when Billy speaks Mazahs name?
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Post by redsycorax on Jun 18, 2023 23:37:01 GMT
Interestingly enough, there was an Earth-One Billy Batson, but because he had never encountered any analogue to Shazam, he was never empowered to become Earth-One's Captain Marvel, even when he spoke the trigger word 'Shazam'. However, it worked perfectly well for the Earth-S Billy Batson, Mary Bromfield, Freddie Freeman and Teth-Adam. So evidently, there needs to be some thaumaturgic activation incident to initiate recipient empowerment- which Earth-One's Billy lacked: dc.fandom.com/wiki/Billy_Batson_(Earth-One)Billy (Earth-One)'s existence was disclosed in DC Comics Presents 49 (September 1982), so he existed for three years before you know what: dc.fandom.com/wiki/DC_Comics_Presents_Vol_1_49All of which raises an interesting question. What happened to that Billy during and after the Crisis on Infinite Earths in 5E continuity? One suspects that in CIE's standard sole Earth continuity, his life was either erased for existence or amalgamated with that of the Earth-S Billy and Captain Marvel. However, in 5E's scheme of things, Earth-One Billy may still exist somewhere. Or does he? |
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