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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 1, 2023 23:54:18 GMT
In Superman vol. 2 #226 and Action Comics #836, we see two different alternate universes. In one, the Kal-El of Earth-0 is the Superman of Earth-2, and in the other, Kal-L of Earth-2 is the Superman of Earth-0. The storyline imagines how Each superman would have lived their lives differently, and changed the history of their respective universes. It highlights the differences in personality between the two Superman, one from the Greatest Generation, and the other from Generation X
Superman #226
On Earth-2, Superman initially tries to end World War 2, but is unable to do it because of the Spear of Destiny. His life does not appear to be any different from Kal-L's until 1951. When the JSA is called before the House Un-American Activities Committee and ordered to Unmask, Superman shows up and reveals his secret identity, stating that he believes in full co-operation with the lawful authorities.
Superman is pleased that Earth-2 has so few supervillains compared to his own. He (and later Power Girl) work around the clock for the next 30 years stopping villains and eliminating threat. Superman believes it is his duty to use his powers to keep the world safe, and is delighted that he can finally do it. Because of this, none of the golden age heroes come out of retirement, and their children never become heroes in their own right. Everybody feels that there is no point becoming a superhero, Superman will just handle everything.
And this works fine, as long as Superman and Power Girl never encounter a threat they can't deal with. Then, in 1985, the Crisis on Infinite Earths happens. Superman tries to stop the Anti-Monitor alone, and is killed. Power Girl dies trying to find other heroes to help. In the end, Earth-2 is destroyed
Action Comics #836 On Earth-0, Superman starts changing things early on. When he first meets Batman, he quickly exposes the ruse about the bomb Bruce planted in his own utility belt. He urges Batman to trust him, and work with him as a friend and equal. As a result, the start off with a much closer partnership, more like the pre-crisis World's Finest. Batman helps Superman expose Lex Luthor's criminal operations and bring him to justice around the time of Action Comics #600. Superman then offers to use kryptonian technology to slow the progress of Luthor's cancer, if he agrees to use his genius for the betterment of mankind. Luthor agrees.
Kal-L is able to defeat Doomsday without dying. When the JLA debates what to do about Dr. Light, Superman shows up and sends him to the Phantom Zone as a solution, thus preventing the Identity Crisis. Superman begins sending all supervillains to the Phantom Zone, as it is more secure than a normal prison. Kal-L concentrates on showing the world an example of true goodness and right, and inspiring other to follow his example and do good. The other members of the JLA feel that Superman has gone to far, that he is using his image and his powers to impose his beliefs on humanity. In response, Superman forcefully disbands the Justice League, declaring they have lost their way and forgotten the cause they are fighting for. He forms the Justice League Elite (with Batman, Green Arrow, Hawkman, and the members of Manchester Black's Elite) who share his belief in the need to do what is morally right, even if it is against the law.
Finally, Superman announces his intention to run for President of the United States. Terrified that he is going to set up a right-wing dictatorship, Wonder Woman allies herself and the Amazons with Maxwell Lord and his OMACs against Superman. However, Lord double-crosses her. while the Amazons are battleing the JLE, his other ally Lex Luthor releases all the supervillains from the Phantom Zone. Luthor states that he admires Superman in many ways, but he will be no man's lackey. The Supervillains and OMACs kill all the heroes, and take over the world
As the title says, what do people think of these worlds? Do they make sense? What else do you think might have happened that the comic does not cover?
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 2, 2023 3:14:22 GMT
It seems that the "Earth-2" Superman is acting in compliance with the continuity established for the Justice Society until 1951. But wow, trusting Joe McCarthy and HUAC...? Really? What would the reprecussions of that be? Superman and Power Girl seem to have the heroic endeavour angle addressed but the consequences of that hubris are well thought out. It's rather like the "Time Lord Victorious" story arc in the Tenth Doctor's narrative in Doctor Who- in which pride cometh before an almighty fall, which is the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Some other alternate versions of the CIE I've encountered have Superman dying in the anti-matter universe against the Anti-Monitor instead of Supergirl.
The other narrative has a more collaborative World's Finest team, reformed Luthor, sidestepping Doomsday, and using the Phantom Zone trope quite well. Added to which, the harder Golden Age edge to this Superman is in character. But it backfires, as does the rebellion against Superman and the JLE.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions and absolute power corrupts absolutely? Yes, I can see the sense in either storyline. They look okay to me. Are these Dark Multiverse stories?
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Post by jonclark on Jul 2, 2023 17:54:36 GMT
They both felt a bit heavy handed to me. The type of "see how much better the way things are is" story designed to play up the strengths of current stories.
Other than writer's fiat there was no reason for things to go that off the rail. Why is Kal-L so much more effective on Earth 0 than either he is on Earth 2 or his Earth 0 counterpart. And vice versa. I can see the difference in power level effecting the battles with Doomsday and the Anti-Monitor, but other than that why would the Earth 0 Superman become more 24/7 or the Earth 2 Superman become more authoritarian. Pre-Crisis Kal-L didn't found a more brutal JSA and on Earth 0 Superman's presence didn't cause other heroes to step aside.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 2, 2023 21:51:56 GMT
Pre-Crisis Kal-L didn't found a more brutal JSA and on Earth 0 Superman's presence didn't cause other heroes to step aside. I didn't get the impression that Kal-L is more brutal or authoritarian. Rather, that he appears that way in comparison to the other heroes of Earth-0. Remember, shis is the Superman who would spin corrupt businessmen around in the air until the wrote out confessions.
I think the idea was that the Superman-2 actively tries to inspire people to be heroes, while the Earth-0 Superman actively tries NOT to. This was very deeply probed in the storyline where Luthor ran for president. Superman-0 doesn't want people to idolize him and look to him for guidance. He wants them to follow their own paths.
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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 3, 2023 13:49:35 GMT
I found a few problems with the story, mostly the Earth-2 portion. I find it hard to imagine that Superman would have changed nothing else in the first 13 years of his career. I also feel like some heroes (such as Dr. Fate and the Spectre) would remain active because the threats they deal with are outside Superman's wheelhouse.
As for Earth-0, while I don't think it's necessarily out of character for Kal-L to run for president, I'm not sure why he chose to do so here and not on Earth-2. Also, I feel like the Earth-2 Superman would be less inclined to trust Luthor, considering how unredeemable his Luthor is.
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 3, 2023 23:45:22 GMT
John, I've come to the same conclusions about Alexei compared to Lex. I think the question is, why did Alexei turn out that way?
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Post by johnreiter902 on Jul 4, 2023 0:16:28 GMT
John, I've come to the same conclusions about Alexei compared to Lex. I think the question is, why did Alexei turn out that way? One thing I've seen pointed out is that Alexei has no family. He has no sister Lena, and he never fell in love.
Another point is that there was no Superboy on Earth-2. On Earth-1, Lex was good and heroic until he was about 12 years old, and a huge fan of Superboy. Mayby having Superboy as a role model on Earth-1 helped steer him along better paths than his Earth-2 counterpart.
Superboy also built Lex's first laboratory for him, because Lex's poor parents could never have afforded it. On Earth-2, Alexei would need to resort to other means to find the resources for his experiments, particularly during the depression.
One final thought. We know that Alexei was apprenticed under the Ultra-Humanite in the late 1930s. This never happened to Lex.Maybe the Ultra-HUmanite helped encouraged Alexei to become more sociopathic.
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Post by dave on Jul 4, 2023 0:43:06 GMT
There is an issue of Radio Squad, before Alexei Luthor with a scientist villain who was s dead ringer for the Alexei. He was using mysterious radio controlled armored robot car that was into other vehicles. More Fun Comics Vol 1 #23 August 1937. Remote controlled weapons were a staple of Luthor's first battles with Superman. The scientist in the Radio Squad story said he was the father of a boy killed in a hit and run and was taking revenge on all motorists.
Perhaps he was Luthor and it was the death of his son that turned him into a villain
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Post by redsycorax on Jul 4, 2023 4:59:36 GMT
That's an excellent suggestion, Dave. Losing one's own child is a major traumatic life episode and enough to drive someone over the edge, especially given the abundance of other stressors during the Depression, unemployment, homelessness, poverty, opportunist crime, civil unrest, mental illness, family fragmentation and suicide. Perhaps that could have been what drove Alexei over the edge, especially if it was at the end of a lot of other adverse personal experiences during the thirties.
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Post by DocQuantum on Jul 15, 2023 20:16:52 GMT
There is an issue of Radio Squad, before Alexei Luthor with a scientist villain who was s dead ringer for the Alexei. He was using mysterious radio controlled armored robot car that was into other vehicles. More Fun Comics Vol 1 #23 August 1937. Remote controlled weapons were a staple of Luthor's first battles with Superman. The scientist in the Radio Squad story said he was the father of a boy killed in a hit and run and was taking revenge on all motorists. Perhaps he was Luthor and it was the death of his son that turned him into a villain Perhaps. But it is only a 2-page story, and the "villain" has no dialogue except for shouting "THE POLICE!" The only resemblance is the red hair. His eyes look maniacal, and he seems like a real "kook" to me obsessed with petty revenges against random drivers who had absolutely nothing to do with his son's death, not the calculating would-be world conquerer that Luthor was always portrayed as. I don't see it working as an origin story unless there's a lot more to it. |
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Post by dave on Jul 15, 2023 21:51:01 GMT
He's still a ringer for Alexi and the use of remote controlled weapons was his early modis operandi. They may not be related. Alexi could have used that as an alibi for a placing in a less restrictive prison so he could escape easier. He was caught too easily. If the Radio Squad Villain was Alexi I'm sure it was to test the capability of the police.
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