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Post by dans on Oct 10, 2023 18:01:28 GMT
Did the story in 'Superman's Return to Krypton' in Superman #141 also occur in the E2 universe? I don't see it on our timeline... but, if it did, there would be overlap between Halk Kar's visit to Krypton and Superman's visit to Krypton. Halk spent enough time there that he developed a friendship with Jor-L and Jor-L helped him fix his busted rocketship - it seems likely that Halk at least knew about baby Kal-L and possibly met him.
And it seems pretty likely that in the E1 universe, Lar Gand would have met Kal-EL during the weeks HE was stranded on Krypton and developed a friendship with Jor-El as they two worked to fix up his busted rocketship.
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Post by dans on Oct 10, 2023 18:02:08 GMT
Hmm, now I'm wondering - who was the Halk Kar / Lar Gand analog in the E3 universe?
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Post by redsycorax on Oct 10, 2023 21:59:59 GMT
If there was one, perhaps he served as an "Ultraboy" when his lead poisoning was cured in its thirtieth century? We know Ultraman was never an Ultraboy on Earth-Three, but it'd be entirely within character if, as an adolescent, he had encountered Lar Gand, to beam him into the Phantom Zone because (a) this evil iteration of Lar Gand wanted world domination and so did the future Ultraman, so he might see it as disposing of a rival; (b) sending him into the Phantom Zone and extending his life might be seen as a form of torture, even if it might be viewed as morally ambiguous too, given that it would have saved Lar's life.
One other thing- given that Lar didn't sustain lead poisoning on Krypton, does that imply that it's a rare element there? No-one seems to have remarked on that aspect of Daxamite lead vulnerability. It must also be rare on Daxam itself as well, given there's no reference to widespread lead poisoning deaths there, not even from leaden asteroids. Is there something about red sun exoplanet formation that renders lead concentrations rarer than on yellow sun worlds, I wonder?
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Post by redsycorax on Oct 10, 2023 23:48:05 GMT
As for Kal-L and Halk Kar meeting, that might not have happened. We don't know how old Kal-L was at the time, or whether preparation for the forthcoming evacuation flight to Earth would have necessitated Kal-L receiving preliminary medical treatment before his spaceflight occurred, so Halk Kar might not have met him. The same would apply to Kal-El on Krypton-One. And remember, we're dealing with alternate worlds here, so precise historical details might differ. It's quite possible for Kal-El to have briefly met Lar Gand on Krypton-One but for Kal-L not to have done so on Krypton-Two. In any case, would Kal-El have detailed memories of his time on Krypton-One? He does seem familiar with his homeworld's history and culture as Superboy, which implies that there must have been some form of in-ship educational interface to provide it. But would that have preserved early memories as a young infant? He didn't seem to remember Mon-El when Lar Gand finally arrived on Earth, so perhaps not.
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Post by dans on Oct 11, 2023 1:41:16 GMT
so, two different issues...
In either Universe: Did either Lar Gand or Halk Kar meet baby Kal-L/El? (just because two folks have a working friendship doesn't mean they've met each other's kids, so I'm just curious
On Earth 1 When the adult Superman went back in time and spent months on Krypton before it exploded and was pretty much adopted as a family member, why didn't HE meet Lar Gand at that time, as Jor-El was spending weeks with Lar working on his rocket?
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Post by redsycorax on Oct 11, 2023 1:55:07 GMT
Kal-El may not have been living with his parents at the time that he temporarily returned to Krypton-One and no-one's ever established how large Kryptonopolis was as a city. After Brainiac abducted Kandor, it became Krypton's short-lived second capital until the planet's explosion. Therefore, he simply could have been living in a different area of Kryptonopolis while he was stranded there and their paths would never cross. Added to which, Kal was distracted by a certain Lyla Lerrol, so that might have caused additional divergence of their paths.
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Post by jonclark on Oct 11, 2023 3:05:54 GMT
As for Kal-L and Halk Kar meeting, that might not have happened. We don't know how old Kal-L was at the time, or whether preparation for the forthcoming evacuation flight to Earth would have necessitated Kal-L receiving preliminary medical treatment before his spaceflight occurred, so Halk Kar might not have met him. The same would apply to Kal-El on Krypton-One. And remember, we're dealing with alternate worlds here, so precise historical details might differ. It's quite possible for Kal-El to have briefly met Lar Gand on Krypton-One but for Kal-L not to have done so on Krypton-Two. In any case, would Kal-El have detailed memories of his time on Krypton-One? He does seem familiar with his homeworld's history and culture as Superboy, which implies that there must have been some form of in-ship educational interface to provide it. But would that have preserved early memories as a young infant? He didn't seem to remember Mon-El when Lar Gand finally arrived on Earth, so perhaps not. Kal-El had a memory stimulating device he created to restore his early memories which were eroded due kryptonite exposure over the years. Not sure if that means he never met Lar as an infant or if the meeting is one lost to kryptonite between leaving the planet and their meeting during his Superboy career. |
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Post by jonclark on Oct 11, 2023 3:23:17 GMT
One other thing- given that Lar didn't sustain lead poisoning on Krypton, does that imply that it's a rare element there? No-one seems to have remarked on that aspect of Daxamite lead vulnerability. It must also be rare on Daxam itself as well, given there's no reference to widespread lead poisoning deaths there, not even from leaden asteroids. Is there something about red sun exoplanet formation that renders lead concentrations rarer than on yellow sun worlds, I wonder? Maybe it wasn't a lack of lead on Krypton but something in the Kryptonian atmosphere that protected Lar. It was shown in his meeting with Superboy that exposure to kryptonite in a lead box has no effect. It was Superboy's test of whether Mon-El was really Kryptonian. Though the Kryptonite had no effect, neither did the lead box. This became a clue that green-K was a vital part of the anti-lead serum. So maybe whatever is useful in green-K also was part of pre-destruction Krypton. |
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Post by jonclark on Oct 11, 2023 3:35:37 GMT
As for Adult Kal crossing paths with Lar on Krypton-One. Remember Superman had to leave the planet before his infant self came into existence due to that weird bit about becoming a phantom of you already existed already in a time period.
Lar's map was originally written for baby Kal so it makes sense Superman (the time traveler) had come and gone before Lar arrived.
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Post by redsycorax on Oct 11, 2023 3:37:52 GMT
As I've postulated in another thread, it might well be the case that Daxamites are specifically vulnerable to radioactive lead isotopes alone, namely lead-205 or lead-210. Perhaps something in kryptonite's atomic structure protects Daxamites from succumbing to these radioactive lead isotopes, just as lead shields Kryptonians from kryptonite poisoning. Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotopes_of_lead |
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Post by dans on Oct 11, 2023 13:09:06 GMT
I read the Mon-El origin story again and it suggests that Kal-El had not yet been born, or was born only recently, when Lar Gand was on Krypton, and Jor-El gave Lar the map to Earth because he had memorized it. Although that suggests another possible paradox - in the E1 universe, Kal-El was walking and talking before Krypton exploded, so it suggests Lar left Krypton perhaps an Earth year or 2 before it exploded. It was my impression that Krypton exploded immediately after he left, though I could be conflating the two stories. But if he did leave a year early, it would have been before the arrival of the adult Superman when he returned to Krypton, so there actually wouldn't have been an overlap.
I missed the thing about 'the adult Superman would turn into a time ghost when Kal-El was born', thanks.
Still possible that Halk was introdced to baby Kal-L, but I don't actually see any relevance to this - I don't think it would not have affected any of our canon or stories.
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Post by jonclark on Oct 11, 2023 19:16:38 GMT
With the map, wasn't the reason both Halk and Lar were assumed to be Superman's brother due to Jor having written on the map that it was "for my son's which supposes that Jor already knew Kal existed?
And the time ghost thing is funny in that I think adult Superman as the one already in that time period would remain solid. It would be the younger Kal that would become a ghost whenever he came into existence (depending on what that term means)
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Post by dans on Oct 11, 2023 21:03:40 GMT
With the map, wasn't the reason both Halk and Lar were assumed to be Superman's brother due to Jor having written on the map that it was "for my son's which supposes that Jor already knew Kal existed? And the time ghost thing is funny in that I think adult Superman as the one already in that time period would remain solid. It would be the younger Kal that would become a ghost whenever he came into existence (depending on what that term means) Yes, what Jor-El says is that the note is for his baby son, Kal-El. Sorry, I misremembered again. |
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Post by dans on Oct 12, 2023 12:04:07 GMT
One other thing I noticed in the Halk Kar and Lar Gand stories. Each of them was carrying a map, which showed the course for Kal's rocket to come to Earth, and in neither story was there any suggestion that Jor planned to send all 3 of them to Earth, only Kal. But other stories suggest that he was ALWAYS planning to send all 3 of them to Earth, and Krypton exploded before he finished the bigger rocket.
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Post by dans on Oct 13, 2023 11:10:44 GMT
also just noticed.... Superboy has perhaps just fatally poisoned Lar Gand who is clearly in great pain, and he asks him "Why did you try to steal my girl, Lana?" THEN he says 'I'll fly you away from the lead!!!'
Shouldn't 'fly you away from the lead that is killing you that I exposed you to' take priority over 'why did you try to steal my girl'?
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